Funada Ikkin

[Viper6924]

Hi!

 

I have a nice koshirae for a tanto. Fuchi is signed Funada Ikkin. Very nice mei, but which generation do You think it is?

 

The details are very fine indeed.

 

All input is appreciated!

 

 

/Jan

[Curran]

Have you a photo of the entire koshirae to share?

[docliss]

Dear Jan

 

What a beautiful fuchi-gashira. As to the question as to whether it is by the first or the second generation Funada Ikkin, my initial impression, based on the character of the work and the inclusion of katakiri-bori, would be to attribute it to the second master. And by far the majority of signed work is by this artist. But the kao appears to be that of the first master, which differs to some extent from that of the second.

 

Kind regards, John L.

[Curran]

I didn't even recall there was a second generation.

From a quick glance, I was pretty sure this was by the first generation.

 

Here is a drastically overpriced one that has been up for sale for a few years:

http://www.seiyudo.com/TU-080812.htm

 

Viper- if you would be able to show a photo of the entire koshirae, I suspect it would be a pleasure to see ensuite.

[Viper6924]

Thanks John and Curran for Your comments.

 

Looking at the fine details I also think it´s the first or second generation Ikkin. I of course hope it´s no 1.

 

I´ve seen a bunch of different mei from this artist, so I really need more help with that.

 

Here´s two more pictures. It´s really hard taking good pics.

 

Thanks again!

 

Jan

[nagamaki - Franco]

Thank you very much for posting, elegant set in good taste, the menuki too. The ito knot looks to be very well tied, and is that an insert (forgot the name???, sorry), on the fuchi?

[Pete Klein]

Nice work but I must say I doubt the mei is good. There are too many fine points incorrect for either generation. This is from Wakayama:

 

 

 

[Viper6924]

I will not argue against You, Pete. Like I said, I have seen a lot of so called Funada Ikkin the 1:st mei to know this is a minefield.

 

This mei are amongst the better looking ones. Plus that the workmanship is really good. I think this mei is pretty close to the left one in your att.

 

But, I´m in no position to huff and puff to much.

 

More input on this mei would be helpful.

 

Thanks again Pete and Nagamaki!

 

 

Jan

[docliss]

Although I am not normally one to recommend the submission of a fitting for shinsa, I should have thought that this tsuba would be an ideal candidate for such. John L.

 

Sorry for the typo - for 'tsuba' read 'koshirae'. John L.

[Pete Klein]

Maybe I'm missing something. Which 'tsuba' are you referring to???

 

PS: I'm all for submission of items in question to NBTHK shinsa as I do this myself.

[Curran]

Thank you for sharing that picture of the koshirae.

These past few years I've been more interested in koshirae, especially original tanto koshirae.

 

I recently enjoyed seeing this one:

http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/146024478

Nice little Namban tanto tsuba.

 

Jan.....

Is the tsuba facing the correct way? Given the slender kogai or umbari slot, there should be a corresponding inlet on one side of the tsuba. Otherwise it would be impossible to draw the kogai or umbari without drawing the blade.

[Ford Hallam]

for what it's worth...

 

I prefer to asses the workmanship and artistry first. On that basis I have to conclude that this aspect fits very well with Funada Ikkin I's style. Worth pointing out is that this style of direct carving is very much akin to calligraphy and handwriting in as much as the character and facility of the writer/artists is very evident.

 

The mei is, to my eyes at least, remarkably fluid and expressive.

 

For me, if I combine these two aspects, I am left with the conclusion that this is a genuine work of an artist and find no suggestion that the name on the work is a deceit.

 

How anyone can make an absolute assertion as to the genuineness of a work of art based on a less than half a dozen examples of mei (from a life time of work) seems to me to be absurd.

 

 

fh

 

p.s Curran, I rather like the example you linked to. I don't think it's over priced at all. The truth is collectors don't appreciate what they are looking at....that's why it's unsold. If it was a possible early Owari piece it'd sell at twice that. but no-one could explain empiricilly why.....

[Pete Klein]

Ford, OMG -- you sound just like Torigoye... sigh...

[Viper6924]

Curran, the tsuba is not part of the orginal koshirae. There is only a inlet for a kozuka nothing for a kogai/umbari.

 

This will be a future project to find a nice tanto-tsuba that compliment the rest of the koshirae.

 

John.L, I also agree with You about the shinsa in this case. I think it has a above average chance to pass.

 

Ford Hallam, The workmanship and artistry should take president over signatures, especially in cases with few examples to compare with. And as You say, in this case the mei look fluid and original.

 

Well, I guess I should pack my bag with a few blades and koshiraes and start looking for the nearest shinsa...

 

Thanks for all the input!

 

Jan

[Ford Hallam]

Curran,

 

just to clarify and to say I wasn't trying to be rude...

 

p.s Curran, I rather like the example you linked to. I don't think it's over priced at all. The truth is collectors don't appreciate what they are looking at....that's why it's unsold. If it was a possible early Owari piece it'd sell at twice that. but no-one could explain empiricilly why.....

 

What I was getting at was that the qualities inherent in this type of work are not very well appreciated or understood in this field. The same situation applies to the field of shodo. Part of the problem, I think, may be the idea that it seems so easy and quick to do this sort of work. Yet the truth is the really expressive, masterful stuff takes years to achieve and this is what separates the really exceptional pieces from the generic work. Discerning the difference is what connoisseurship is all about.

 

Pete, sorry if I sounded a bit arrogant ....not intended at all My objection to spotting minute differences in mei based on a handful of examples, when an artist possibly did 100 or more in their working life time and these inevitably evolved in style, seems to be a very limited appraisal. To be frank, I fear that in Japan today there is an over reliance in this approach also.

[Jean]

Based on my own signature, I tend to agree with Ford

[christianmalterre]

Dear all who do/did show an interest here....

and i just do allow myself so do speak an very personal opinin here(mine personal opinion of course!)

I rather see the needed expression,nor i see that needed quality-so what?

Guessing about an Signature or an Kao can not satisfy the work behind(which should bear it´s signature even without)-at lest,so mineself do work,and did learn.

Why not just looking?

It´s very very Nice!-Of Course!-but at least myself would be cautious...

It´s however an relatively rare to find ensemble-so in that thematics(of the applied work) i think i can congratulate for this very nice found either way.

Well done!

 

Christian

[Curran]

Ford,

 

In response:

"Mmmehhp...." . I like Ikkin's work overall in terms of mood, but all the examples I have seen have lacked some degree of anima / soul.

Like his work. Don't L-O-V-E it. It never grabs me, nor invokes Impression from me.

 

At $3000, maybe it would go. At near $6000, not for me. Others seem to agree, as it has been up for sale for 3 years or so?

The signature is close enough and the workmanship close to that on the tsuba, so I'd probably say Jan has a fair chance as this set being legit.

[Toryu2020]

Interesting questions coming up here,

Ford - in sword appraisal the rule is that the work tells you what the signature is - this fits exactly with your ideas about the workmanship you see. However I have to ask as an artist yourself how do you explain after years of painstaking work mastering the tagane, that the horizontal lines in a signature would all be parallel in the control samples but not in the one in question.

 

Please don't take this the wrong way but do you yourself relax and say "well the works all done, now just to put my John Hancock on it!" or do you maintain your focus and standards right up until the last stroke is cut? Certainly with variations but I am willing to say we all have habits ingrained in us by our first grade teachers that we don't even think about but that folks studying our signatures would suss out.

 

Not challenging you personally but hoping to glean some more of that wonderful wisdom from you...

-t

[Ford Hallam]

Thomas,

 

if you look at the two "control" samples that Pete posted you'll see that they are actually quite different from each other. In fact if we were to be pedantic about it we'd have to conclude one of those two examples must be a fake but I think this rather proves my point, that an artists mei quite naturally changes over time.

 

As an example, take the work and mei of Kano Natsuo. In his case, as one of the all time greats, his work and mei have been extensively researched and the evolution of his various signatures is very clear ( "Kano Natsuo Taikan" by Miyake, 1990) . In fact, the exact placement of certain strokes in his kao seem to indicate the period of his working life when the piece was signed. Unfortunately, with most tosogu artists ( there are some notable exceptions) we have nothing like this sort of thorough research on which to base our assessments.

 

What we really need is a systematic collation of all known examples of a given artists work and mei and a thorough evaluation. Each major artists deserves, and needs, a book to themselves. The present, ad hoc, reference data base is laughably inadequate (the photos of mei are generally pretty terrible too) and does almost nothing to consider the actual technique and artistry of these artists in any meaningful way.

 

You will, no doubt , have seen the film Utsushi, that showed me recreating a work by Hagia Katsuhira. The fact that the original work is quite exceptional apparently did nothing to convince some "authorities" that the mei was genuine. It was even suggested that the piece was by the son despite the fact that the son's work simply doesn't match the father at all in terms of refinement of pure technique. Their reason for rejecting the work was due to the lack of similar examples of mei that features only 4 characters and a kao the artistry and technical skill seemingly irrelevant. Similar misgivings, for the same reason, were expressed on this forum when Bob first posted images of the wakizashi tsuba. There are a number of these 4 character mei around though....if you look hard enough

 

In the film I show another example of a daisho pair by Katsuhira. This pair, possibly the most well recognised Katsuhira work, was in the Compton collection and are rightly regarded as masterpieces. They, too, were signed on the back (possibly indicating a private commission) and in a simple 4 character mei with kao. Another example is a well published iron tsuba that features a carp leaping up a waterfall and is in the NBTHK sword museum in Yoyogi. Bob recently, rather astutely, spotted another example of this mei, this time on an iron tsuba at a London sale. Another little masterpiece that would have been dismissed by those who slavishly adhere to incomplete reference books. :lol:

 

To return to the mei in question though, I see only the horizontal stroke of the kao that is noticeably out of alignment when compared with Pete's samples. I can't see this as an accident. I addition, there are 4 examples illustrated in the Zusetsu Toso Kinko Meishuroku that feature a similar inclination. Those that do share this angled stroke also exhibit a more rounded ta/da character.

 

I don't think any artist in the past signed their work carelessly but it should be pointed out that the vigour and expressiveness of a mei, like shodo, was often regarded as a reflection of the physical, emotional and spiritual health of the artist. As such, it was perfectly natural for an artist, in the machi-bori traditions, to want to reveal a degree of evolution, or growth, in the way they signed their work. One of my great favourites, Otsuki Mitsuoki, illustrates this tendency extremely well, I think.

 

For some really interesting insight into the mind set of Edo period artists I'd recommend Art of Edo Japan: The Artist and the City 1615-1868 This focusses primarily on painters but you can easily imagine the machibori tosogu-shi operating in the same world and we know many of them did in fact have associations and friendships with painters.

 

regards to all,

 

fh