another ww2 japanese katana

[ols76]

Here is another one i just purchased and was told that this is a hand made ww2 sword. I know that they had mass production during WW2 and most of the swords were machine made so please let me know what you think. Any feedbacks will be appreciated!

[Grey Doffin]

Hello, name please,

We need to see a picture of the nakago before we can tell you much.

Grey

[ols76]

...let me know if you need more pic

[raaay]

sorry

 

At quick glance looks like an other - CHINESE COPY

 

Ray

[Jean]

No pictures of the blade but the tsuka ito seems to be well done, though I don't see same nor the knot. A close up picture of the kissaki is so easy and gives immediately the answer. Scabbard is not military and distroyed....

[BenoitD]

A chinese reproduction it seems.

 

Benoit D

[hybridfiat]

The lesson would appear to be POST BEFORE YOU BUY!

[ols76]

Please explain why you think that its a Chinese copy? I purchased this one from a reputable seller and can take it back if its fake. I am attaching more pictures.

[ols76]

...Jean, how can you tell by looking at kissaki if the sword is fake?

 

thansk

Oleg

[ols76]

..I am attaching more pictures.

[blekk]

Is that nioi gire towards the kissaki or is it that just the hamon runs VERY close to the ha at the yokote?

 

EDIT: Makes more sense now

[Ronin Akuma]

Does lack of a yokote mean anything?

I have a WWII sword and it has one.

This one does not.

[Grey Doffin]

I can't be 100% certain but I'm leaning very hard towards Chinese fake with maybe a few real parts (seppa?). The nakago is wrong, the "grain" looks like typical Chinese, although more muted than often seen, the habaki is off, the fuchi is atypical, the kissaki is clumsy and as noted there is no yokote. If it isn't a fake it is a very poorly made Gunto.

Grey

[sanjuro]

The koshirae is also a very poorly cast version. Tsuba and fuchi are quite primitive. As far as the blade is concerned there seems to be a very wierd hamon (if it is a hamon) that wanders all over the place. It occurs to me that if it is a late war specimen, then why wrap the tsuka ito over a bare tsuka or a tsuka that at least has no same'? Too many things dont quite add up.

[stephan_hiller]

I would also say a chinese copy.

- Crude tang

- Lines of the blade are not crisp

- No yokote - and the kissaki is odd-shaped

- Fuchi and Tsuba are badly casted - compare it with real WW2 fittings - the cherry blossoms are much more crosp

 

I don't understand how a "reputable" dealer can sell you such crap - probably depends on how the dealer defines "handmade"

 

Regards

 

Stephan

[Bruno]

I would say last last ditch and poor quality but maybe guenine.

[truelotus]

my opinion :

 

90% chinese fake .... 10% last ditch original gunto

 

Ive seen several swords in "last ditch" mounting, and even it was crude, it was much better than this one ... but I may be wrong ...

 

the habaki is not alligned well, the blade is poorly made ... hamon is suspicious, nakago is not well made, and with odd shape ... even an NCO sword has better shape ...

looks to me that if this was indeed a copy, the man who did it held an original one as to make pattern mould

 

the only thing that looked good is only the way the ito wrapped ... but once more, why wrap so good without same ??

[Jean]

I think Grey is right

[David McDonald]

Dear Oleg

 

I think that from what I see in the images that the sword

could be late war

when you see a lot of crude/poorly shaped nakago (tang)

The fittings are poor casts are found late war

 

no yokote/kissaki/lines not crisp

to me look like someone has taken a oil tempered blade with problems and fitted it up so that

it could be sold as a wall hanger.

 

If this was priced in the $200 to $400 range it is what it is.

If it was priced higher than $500 I would wonder about the seller.

 

But I do not think chinese.

 

Just my thoughts

 

david mcdonald

[chrisf]

I agree with David.Well before the appearance of Chinese copies I had swords like this with very poorly cast fittings (moulds worn out?) and low quality blades that were also poorly finished,almost certainly NOT a hand forged,water quenched blade but a late war effort at providing a shingunto.

It looks genuine and is of interest as a piece of World War II memorabilia.

[truelotus]

this is the best example I can get from "last ditch mounting" ... and well ... I still believe that yours are fake, and the maker has one gunto in hand ... though I cannot be sure until I see and hold the real thing

 

http://yakiba.com/Kat_Masamitsu.htm

 

to me, the way the habaki aligned with the sword, the shape and sori of the sword and the lack of same is the key point of pointing that 90% this was a fake ...

 

but there's still another 10% ... the way the ito wrapped and the menuki ... :D

[chrisf]

Donny,look again at the picture of the menuki and what is behind....just because same didn't appear in one photo it's wrong to conclude that there is NO same on this tsuka.Frequently on late war gunto and lower end antique swords you'll see same in bits and pieces applied to the tsuka rather than two strips or a full same wrap.Because these strips/bits of same are not great quality they become brittle and are easily broken and dislodged and gaps appear beneath the ito.

The fittings are typically late war and are probably not solid brass,while the metal looks like brass I think it may be some sort of amalgam that could be used instead of brass which was required for shell and cartridge cases.

Finally,I have actually owned swords like this not just compared photos found online or in books.

[truelotus]

Donny,look again at the picture of the menuki and what is behind....just because same didn't appear in one photo it's wrong to conclude that there is NO same on this tsuka.Frequently on late war gunto and lower end antique swords you'll see same in bits and pieces applied to the tsuka rather than two strips or a full same wrap.Because these strips/bits of same are not great quality they become brittle and are easily broken and dislodged and gaps appear beneath the ito.

The fittings are typically late war and are probably not solid brass,while the metal looks like brass I think it may be some sort of amalgam that could be used instead of brass which was required for shell and cartridge cases.

Finally,I have actually owned swords like this not just compared photos found online or in books.

 

yeah, I've seen the "same" or whatever it is behind the menuki, the only thing that looked original to me, since all other are dubious. Actually, I see the "same" or fabric behind the menuki, since it is not looked like same at all, and the wondrous thing is the wrap looked tight, even without the same ... this is also raising a suspicion to me

 

as you may have seen originals like this, I have seen sword quite like this sold in Indonesia in full shin gunto dress and proved to be a chinese fake ... the blade tells the story, the mounting is a cast made from original gunto mounting, yet in low quality.

 

I still incline to say that this was a copy, BUT whoever made this surely must hold the original as pattern to make copies

 

see this example of kai gunto

http://www.keris.biz/pedang/003%20WW2%2 ... fficer.php

 

but still I cannot say that my opinion is 100% true, as I am not handling the sword in question in my hand, whilst the picture may tell only limited information :D

 

so I think it is better that we incline toward the safe side until we have more information

[chrisf]

Donny,the kai gunto you show is readily identifiable as fake for several reasons and is very different to the sword under discussion.

Also consider this;WHY would someone bother to make such an inferior quality gunto AS A COPY?

Fakes are made for commercial purposes so what would be the point of spending time making a crap copy when you could make a good one with the same effort?

The tsuka of this sword looks genuine,the fittings are typical of very late war manufacture and the blade has old patina on the nakago not fake patination,evidence of a hamon and a kissaki that is also fairly typical of low quality Showa gunto.

In any event the issue is settled and it has been unanimously agreed upon that this is not a quality,traditionally made nihonto.

[JamesH]

Hi all,

 

I do not believe that this sword is fake, but I would vote late war piece. I have seen many late war seki swords with similar shape nakago, showing virtually no yasuri.

 

The fittings - I have definetly seen worse between late war and last ditch swords. I think these were made using similar or the same cast as normal shin gunto fittings, but from the look of them I would say less/poorer quality brass used and no red lacquer to go over them. Oak handle - honoki becoming scarce, lower quiality menuki, whatever rayskin was available (off a very young stingray in this case).

 

As for the actual shape of the blade, many of this seller's swords have been tempered with sandpaper or otherwise - some looking far beyond salvation. I cannot be sure but I do see a little of a turnback in the now absent boshi, but its hard to judge for sure.

 

 

Just my two cents

 

 

James