jjsilwm Posted August 11, 2011 Report Posted August 11, 2011 Dear friend, My name is Jair Francisco da Silva Junior. I am Brazilian and I ask your help with my sword. I love Japanese culture and I'm starting to collect Japanese swords, but do not know if I got good or bad! Researched a lot and I think not getting significant results about this sword I bought, then I ask your help! I need to know if the blade of my sword is a Showato (WWII) or is simply a modern forgery (if possible, I want the translation of the Mei and details about the Hamon)! Also need to know the approximate age of Koshirae and if it is quality. If you can tell what the approximate value of the blade and what the approximate value of Koshirae be grateful! These are some more details and photos of the sword blade and Koshirae: Total length of the blade: 79 cm Nakago length: 17.5 cm Blade weight: 1,250 kg Blade width: 3,5 cm Blade thickness: 9 mm Sori: 1,5 cm Same Kawa: shark skin Saya with buffalo horn Koshirae metal parts: bronze with silver and gold ornaments. Photos of Blade:[/color] https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?ci ... DEAE9B!377 Photos of Koshirae:[/color] https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?ci ... DEAE9B!394 For I have checked my sword is made by hand with a Showato steel mill with a generic Mei says 山 捍 卆 左, translation: 山 捍 (name = Yama-Kan) and 卆 (Sotsu = soldier) 左 (Taisa = Colonel ), then it would have been made for a Colonel. I believe we have the blade mounted in a civil Koshirae luxury shortly after WWII, because he thought the blade good. As you can see, I tried very hard researching before creating this topic, so I'm just asking for your help because I'm not sure if that's right! I trust everything you say and I appreciate all the help! If you need any more information let me know! Thank you! Quote
Jamie Posted August 11, 2011 Report Posted August 11, 2011 There are very few pictures of the blade, so not much can be told there. The Nakago(Tang) is pretty crude though, the lines are not straight. Tsuba appears to cast. I would bet on it being some kind of chinese repro. You might take a look at the following link. http://jssus.org/nkp/fake_japanese_swords.html Brian, I just noticed more pics of blade than I first although Even just the couple of the Nakago, and you can tell. TY Quote
Brian Posted August 11, 2011 Report Posted August 11, 2011 Actually..there are plenty pics of the blade, and all of them show it as very, very fake. Sorry. Need more study. Brian Oh and Jair, you are welcome to use colors if you like, but it distracts and is irritating trying to read. Just saying... Quote
jjsilwm Posted August 11, 2011 Author Report Posted August 11, 2011 Jamie and Brian, Thank you for responding so quickly, friends! Thank you for guidance regarding the colors of the text! Some time ago I read that link you showed me, and making the comparison of my blade looks authentic WWII, of better quality than those presented as a fake. The same can said of Koshirae, which seems of high quality for me. The Tsuka Ito is not silk and it is lower, but I think I can not condemn all because of the sword detail. Just need everyone's help to uncover the truth, because I need to know if the blade is WWII or if it is fake! Contribution of all I hope! What you said is making me very scared, but I'd rather know the truth! I hope it's fake! P.S.: I apologize, because I do not speak English, then write bad English! ________________________ Jair Francisco da Silva Junior Quote
Brian Posted August 11, 2011 Report Posted August 11, 2011 Jair, Trust me...this is a Chinese fake. Not even a small chance it is real..none of it. I know the truth hurts, but if you can see a real sword or 2, you will soon see the difference. Nothing on this one looks real. And the signature is nonsense...they do not read like that. You need to spend some money on books and seeing real swords. Brian Quote
jjsilwm Posted August 11, 2011 Author Report Posted August 11, 2011 Dear Brian, Thank you for your sincerity! I'm sad , but it is better to know the truth than to live an illusion! And the Tsuba is also fake? What about Koshirae in general? Thank you! ________________________ Jair Francisco da Silva Junior Quote
Grey Doffin Posted August 11, 2011 Report Posted August 11, 2011 Jair, 100% of your sword is Chinese fake; there is no part that is real. Buy books and study; until you do you will only throw away money on fake or bad swords. There is no short cut to learning. Grey Quote
Jean Posted August 11, 2011 Report Posted August 11, 2011 Jair, Munemachi and hamachi are not even aligned and by at least half an inch. Books are one thing, what you need is to see real nihonto, otherwise books won't help you make the distinction between genuine or fake swords. Quote
truelotus Posted August 12, 2011 Report Posted August 12, 2011 Hi Jair ... looking at your blade ... and I agree with all of the above ... it is definitely a fake ... and not a good one ... the hunches are : 1. the kissaki is very very terrible, with no yokote ... look at the real one, compare them with yours the true beauty 2. the hamachi and munemachi are not in line hamachi and munemachi should be in line, few exceptions from old swords that has been shortened (and even so, it is not so distantly separated as in yours), and yours are definitely not old :D look at the sample below 3. the nakago have very odd yasurime, the mei is ridiculous, and the middle line is not straight and I very rarely seen a mei in the center for sword (plenty in tantos, though) ... they usually tends to be on left side of the nakago, and definitely never seen one with modern military ranks ... not to mention that the rust is suspicious :D 4. hamon on yours are cosmetic (most likely acid etched), and lacks the true beauty of a hamon you know, Japanese swords in general are following certain rules, that are specific to it. There are few exceptions, but most are in line with that rules ... well ... I hope my explanation is can give you a new insight ... don't be discouraged, my friend ... as we learn from our mistakes and errors :D I just hoped you did not spend a lot for that sword Quote
jjsilwm Posted August 12, 2011 Author Report Posted August 12, 2011 Dear friends, Thank you all for your help! I follow the advice to spend a little money on specialized books and I'll try to have contact with blades Nihonto authentic (I acknowledge my little knowledge on the subject)! I know I learn from my mistakes and thank you for the contribution of my learning! But there's something you may not understand about my question: I never thought that my sword was an authentic Nihonto (realized that seeing the pictures of a real blade), what I wonder is whether it is a blade of WWII, because were made with steel factory and were of poor quality (no Tamahagane and not forged by hand). Everything you said about the lack of quality and standardization of the blade (Kissaki, Hamachi and Munemachi, Yasurime, Nakago, Mei) can occur in a Gunto, bad as they were forged. I need to know if there is a possibility of my blade be a Gunto. Thank you! Quote
paulb Posted August 12, 2011 Report Posted August 12, 2011 Dear Jair, what you say about gunto and quality is true, and there are some very poor quality gunto blades in existence. However this is not one of them. there is absolutely no doubt that what others have said before is correct. This is a poor chinese copy. It was not made in Japan has probably never been in Japan and I think most likely 30 or 40 years younger than I am which means it didnt exist during WWII. I am sorry but you are clutching at straws, but the facts will not change it is a fake. Sorry that your first experience was a bad one. I wish you luck with your future study and purchases. Best Regards Paul Quote
sanjuro Posted August 12, 2011 Report Posted August 12, 2011 OK, time for plain speak. This is not a gunto. It has never been a gunto, and would never have been produced as a gunto even of the poorest quality. In fact I would be surprised if this had been produced earlier than this century and outside of China. Quite frankly I have seen jeep spring field replacements that are better made than this specimen. Now, having said that and possibly made myself very unpopular in saying it, can I suggest that you spend some time in study of the real thing. Gunto, although not true nihonto, have a minimum level of quality that is much better than the sword under discussion. Only a familiarity with genuine specimens will give you a feeling for what is correct and what is real. I respect the fact that you are new to this field and it can be a very confusing time for you, but gunto were very strictly controlled in production and they all (the genuine ones) conform to a standard pattern. Look upon this as a part of the dues you pay for knowledge and move forward. Study first, then and only then, make a purchase. This board is here to help if you have questions and/or doubts about a prospective purchase. I am sure that members of this board will be happy to guide you and perhaps even have swords to offer you. They at least will be genuine and reasonably priced. *Edited for semantic fidelity Quote
Brian Posted August 12, 2011 Report Posted August 12, 2011 ..Everything you said about the lack of quality and standardization of the blade (Kissaki, Hamachi and Munemachi, Yasurime, Nakago, Mei) can occur in a Gunto, bad as they were forged. Actually, generally not true at all. Even the mass produced Gunto still retained good shape, yasurime, nakago shape, kissaki and machi. Although not made from traditional tamahagane, they were not junk and still followed the usual shape rules. Aside from a very few that were maybe made in the field by amateurs, they still retained pride and tradition. Brian Quote
jjsilwm Posted August 12, 2011 Author Report Posted August 12, 2011 Dear Paul, Keith G and Brian, Thank you for your sincerity and delicacy with which they are dealing with my problem! I know that I was deceived and you have all tried to help me understand the truth. Now I know it's a fake Chinese and I'm not deluded. It really is all very confusing to me and it's sad to believe that buying a sword is authentic and then discover that it is a poor Chinese copy! I started my collection too bad, unfortunately! I regret not having consulted the forum before buying the sword! Everything you said is true and now I see it! As you said, it's going to be a learning experience and all have a cost (I see that I've paid my)! Now I'm going to spend more on books and try to make contact with a real Nihonto! Thank you all for your dedication and your patience with me (a beginner confused)! Hug! P.S.: I can make free downloads of books specializing in Nihonto? What are the links (have not found any)? _________________________ Jair Francisco da Silva Júnior Quote
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