Yanagawa-School mysteries

[Ludolf Richter]

Hi Experts,

For more than 20 years I have researched the Yanagawa family in the books,when I had purchased a Tsuba,made by Yanagawa Naoharu.It's very disturbing,how the various sources differ from one another.Even Markus Sesko with his fine book "Genealogies of Japanese tsuba and toso-kinko Artists" could not satisfy my hopes!

Look at the following data with more students than in the various books and the questions arising.If one has new ideas or facts,let us know.Ludolf

 

Naomasa 直 H06690-the founder of the Yanagawa 柳川 -School.1692-1757

 

His sons and students:

 

Naomasa 直将 H06695

"1st son" of Yanagawa Naomasa 直成,"died young",D.ca.1750-1775.B.W.Robinson as Naofuru

 

Naoharu 直春 H06610

"2nd son" (most sources!) of Yanagawa Naomasa,born 1750.Probably not a son of Naomasa,because his wife (a daughter of Yokoya Somin) was already too old?!Some sources make Naoharu the son of Naotsugu 直次 H06835,others a brother,so Naotsugu may have been another son of Naomasa!

One source makes Naoharu the adopted son of Naomitsu 直光 H06717 after his father's death,

Shinkishi Hara (translated from German) only the "fatherly guardian" of Naomitsu.

Naoharu became a student and "assistent" of Naomitsu

 

Naohisa 直故 H06636

Adopted son of Naomasa,1716-1751

 

Naotsugu 直次 H06835

See by Naoharu:son of Naomasa or brother of Naoharu or what else!?

 

Naomitsu 直光 H06717

Adopted son of Naomasa.Was he the successor of Naomasa as head of the Yanagawa Ha or was it Naomasa 直将 H06695 as the eldest son?Some sources make Naomitsu the founder of a Yanagawa sideline.

 

Other students of Yanagawa Naomasa:

 

Naokatsu 直克 H06652

Son of Naoshige,1719-1761

 

Naokatsu 直勝 H06664

D.ca.1775

 

Naotoshi 直俊 H06818

Born 1740

 

Naoshige 直茂 H06765

D.till 1750

 

Naonori 直矩 H06751

Became the founder of the Konakamura school..D.ca.1775

 

(Takano) Naoshige 直重 H06769

D.ca.1775

 

(Morikawa) Naotoshi 直利 H06881

Dates 1764-1771

 

(Inobushi) Naohisa 直久 H06636

D.ca.1775

There are 2 more,but with doubtful data: Naofusa (H06600) and Naosumi (H06776)

 

　

[Toryu2020]

Ludolf-

I wonder if you have seen the excellent genealogies in the Tsuba no Kantei to Kansho by Tsuneishi? My scanner is not working but if you like I could type it out, very different from what you have posted BTW...

-t

[Ludolf Richter]

To all:after I had last previewed my entry to make some corrections,I must have deleted the "masa"-Kanji of Naomasa without being aware of that fact:look at the Naomasa-H06695-entry second line with the 2 Naomasa-Kanji of the "boss".

Hi Thomas,please send my "your" genealogy with only the students and sons of Naomasa.Ludolf

PS.Markus Sesko has the following students of Naomasa (with Naoharu below the Naomitsu-entry as his student):Naohisa,Naomitsu,Naotsugu,Naotsune,Naokatsu and Naonori.

[Ludolf Richter]

Hi all,today a got Markus Sesko's brand-new book in German "Lexikon der japanischen toso-kinko-Schulen".In his book "Genealogies..." there is the remark to Naoharu "some see Naohisa,others Naotsugu as his father".

Now his story is,that Naomasa had no son,so he adopted Naohisa,who married his daughter,and Naoharu became their son.He died when Naohisa was one year old.Now Naomasa adopted Naomitsu,who married Naohisa's widow (Naomasa's daughter) and Naomitsu adopted Naoharu.When Naomasa died in 1757,Naomitsu became his successor (2nd gen.),later to be followed by Naoharu (3rd gen.),when he retired.

That sounds plausible,but there is a genealogical tree on page 182,where Sesko states that according to the "Soken Kisho" Naotsugu is Naoharu's true father!

My question is,were remains Naomasa H06695,who is said to be the 1st son of the Yanagawa founder Naomasa?!Ludolf

[Toryu2020]

Tsuneishi Hideaki writes in 1986;

 

政次 Masatsugu stu of Yokoya Soyo founder of the Yanagawa line

直政 Naomasa Shodai stu of Somin

直故 Naohisa Nidai - died young

直俊 Naotoshi (Yamada)

直光 Naomitsu Sandai - adopted son

直隆 Naotaka (Yamamoto)

直重 Naoshige (Inegawa Shodai)

直克 Naokatsu (Inegawa Nidai)

直久 Naohisa (Inubushi)

直次 Naotsugu (Kiyonaga)

直利 Naotoshi (Morikawa)

直矩 Naonori (Nakamura)

直俊 Naotoshi (Yanagawa)

直常 Naotsune (Kato)

 

This is from the chart on pages 139 and 140 he gives more detail in the individual listings for each artist. The chart also includes the Naohisa, Naomitsu, Naonori and Naotsune lines. I don't know fittings so well but can say that his books on swords are spot on, very helpful kantei hints and always including info not found in other works. I really like this writer and I recommend you try to get this book it is not at all rare.

-t

[Markus]

Hi Ludolf,

 

As you mentioned in your earlier post, Naomasa (直将) - the 1st son of Naomasa - died young.

Unfortunately he is hardly mentioned in any sources and I was not able to find an entry (or a

theory) that he was the actual father of any of Naomasas (直政) students/successors.

 

If he had a son, it would be likely this son that Naomasa (直政) had adopted as heir, so to speak

to maintain the blood-line of the eldest son. (Unless Naomasa´s [直将] son had no talent for the

kinkô craft at all or there were other reasons for ruling him out as successor.) So in my opinion,

if there was a son by Naomasa (直将), it would have been mentioned somewhere in the records.

But because this is not the case, I left out Naomasa (直将).

 

Regarding the Sôken-kishô theory that Naotsugu is the true father of Naoharu, I mentioned it

for the sake of completeness because several sources mention this Sôken-kishô theory too.

 

Mybe we will never know completely about the exact relationships and family backgrounds

of the earlier kinkô schools because already the earliest Japanese publications are often wrong

or incomplete or disagree with one another. But it is highly interesting to dig into these old

sources and even more satisfying when being able to draw some conclusions.

 

BTW: It is interesting that Tsuneishi lists Naohisa as 2nd generation

[Ludolf Richter]

Thank you Thomas!About 20 years ago I tried to get the book,but had no luck.Lateron I had him forgotten,when I had bought the books of the big names.Yesterday I checked google:nobody has this book for sale.Ludolf

[Thierry BERNARD]

http://www.silk-road.us/kantei1.html

 

ISBN:4321146119

ISBN13:9784321146111

[Ludolf Richter]

Hi Markus! Thank you for your statement and your fine books!I have forgotten from what source I had the Naomasa 直将 H06695-data,it was at least 10 years before the Haynes Index.It is quite astonishing,that experts like Shinkishi Hara make "my" Naoharu a son of Yanagawa Naomasa

直成 H06690.Is it possible that he adopted his own grandchild,if Naoharu was in fact the son of his daughter and Naohisa 直故 H06636 or Naotsugu 直次 H06835 (or someone else?!),after she became a widow?! There are enough examples when an adopted son was made successor and not the own sons,if they didn't have the talent for the head of the family Ha.

I have forgotten also,where I have read,that Yanagawa Naomasa's 直成 wife was a daughter of Yokoya Somin and not-as you wrote-a housemaid of the Yokoya-household.One unsolved question is also,from where B.W.Robinson got his 2nd gen."Naofuru"!Ludolf

[Ludolf Richter]

Thanks Thierry,I saw the site,but it's not on their book-site where one can order.Ludolf

[myochin]

In "Tôsôgu Machi-Bori Meihin Shûsei" by Fukushi Shigeo there is quite a section on the Yanagawa school, including several genealogies (p273, p278, p280, p282, p288, p294).

I admit that I don't understand why there are so many genealogies, maybe I am missing something.

If someone else also has this book could they check the above pages.

I can always scan them but it is a big book and clumsy to scan.

 

Paul.

[Ludolf Richter]

Hi all,I have modified my first entry.Ludolf

 

Naomasa直成 H06690-the founder of the Yanagawa 柳川 -School.1692-1757

 

His sons and students:

 

Naomasa直将 H06695

"1st son" of Yanagawa Naomasa直成,"died young",D.ca.1750-1775.B.W.Robinson in the Baur Coll.as Naofuru.According to other sources Naomasa直成 H06690 had no son.The identity of Naomasa直将 H06695 remains a mystery!

 

Naoharu 直春 H06610

"2nd son" (many sources!) of Yanagawa Naomasa,born 1750,died ?Probably not a son of Naomasa,because his wife (a daughter of Yokoya Somin) was already too old!The SOKAN KISHO from the 18th Century make Naoharu the son of Naotsugu 直次 H06835,others -like Martin Sesko in his Genealogies-the son of Naohisa 直故 H06636 and the daughter of Naomasa直成 H06690.According to this source,Naoharu was one year old when his father Naohisa 直故 died.The same source presents a marriage between the widow and Naomitsu直光 H06717 .Naoharu was probably adopted by Naomitsu直光 ,while Shinkishi Hara made him (translated from German) only his "fatherly guardian" .He became a student of Naomitsu.

 

Naohisa 直故 H06636

Adopted son of Naomasa,1716-1751.Probably the father of Naoharu:see above by Naoharu.

 

Naotsugu 直次 H06835

See by Naoharu:son of Naomasa or brother of Naoharu !?

 

Naomitsu直光 H06717

1733-1808 (1809?)

Adopted son of Naomasa and probably married with Naomasa's 直成 H06690 daughter:see above by Naoharu He probably became the successor of Naomasa as head of the Yanagawa Ha ,later followed by Naoharu,when he retired:Naomasa 1st gen.,Naomitsu 2nd gen. and Naoharu 3rd gen.

 

Other students of Yanagawa Naomasa直成 H06690:

 

Naokatsu 直克 H06652

Son of Naoshige,1719-1761

 

Naokatsu 直勝 H06664

D.ca.1775

 

Naotoshi 直俊 H06818

Born 1740

 

Naoshige 直茂 H06765

D.till 1750

 

Naonori 直矩 H06751

Became the founder of the Konakamura school..D.ca.1775

 

(Takano) Naoshige 直重 H06769

D.ca.1775

 

(Morikawa) Naotoshi 直利 H06881

Dates 1764-1771

 

(Inobushi) Naohisa 直久 H06636

D.ca.1775

 

I found 2 more,but with doubtful Data: Naofusa (H06600) and Naosumi (H06776)

 

　

[Ludolf Richter]

Hi,forget my last entry:here is the new one with 2 more students and minor corrections.I have not yet mentioned,that some sources make Masatsugu the founder of the Yanagawa school:he being the 1st gen.,Naomasa 2nd,Naomitsu 3rd and Naoharu 4th gen.,but that's today a minority.For most experts Naomasa is the true founder of the school. Ludolf

 

Naomasa直成 H06690-the founder of the Yanagawa 柳川 -School.1692-1757

 

His sons and students:

 

Naomasa直将 H06695

"1st son" （e.g.Kinko Jiten and Haynes) of Yanagawa Naomasa直成,"died young",D.ca.1750-1775.B.W.Robinson in the Baur Coll.as Naofuru.According to other sources Naomasa直成 H06690 had no son.His existence remains a mystery!

 

Naoharu 直春 H06610

"2nd son" (many sources!) of Yanagawa Naomasa直成,born 1750,died ?Probably not a son of Naomasa,because his wife (a daughter of Yokoya Somin or-Sesko-a housemaid of the Yokoya-houshold) was already too old!The SOKAN KISHO from 1781 makes Naoharu the son of Naotsugu 直次 H06835,others -like Kinko Meikan and now Martin Sesko in his Genealogies-the son of Naohisa 直故 H06636 and the daughter of Naomasa直成 H06690.According to Sesko,Naoharu was one year old when his father Naohisa 直故 died.The same source presents a marriage between the widow and Naomitsu直光 H06717 .Naoharu was probably adopted by Naomitsu直光 ,while Shinkishi Hara made him (translated from German) only his "fatherly guardian" .He became a student and (Hara) an "assistent" of Naomitsu.

 

Naohisa 直故 H06636

Adopted son of Naomasa,1716-1751.Probably the father of Naoharu:see above by Naoharu.

 

(Shimizu) Naotsugu 直次 H06835

See above by Naoharu:son of Naomasa or brother of Naoharu or ?

D.ca.1775

 

Naomitsu直光 H06717

1733-1808 (1809?)

Adopted son of Naomasa and probably married with 's Naomasa's 直成 H06690 daughter:see above by NaoharuAccording to nearly every source he became the successor of Naomasa直成 as head of the Yanagawa Ha ,later followed by Naoharu,when he (early!) retired:Naomasa 1st gen.,Naomitsu 2nd gen. and Naoharu 3rd gen.The Kinko Meikan with his genealogical tree places Naohisa 直故 H06636 between Naomasa's 直成 and Naomitsu直光,which is strange,because Naomasa直成 was still active when Naohisa died.

 

Other students of Yanagawa Naomasa直成 H06690:

 

Naokatsu 直克 H06652

Son of Naoshige,1719-1761

 

Naokatsu 直勝 H06664

D.ca.1775

 

Naotoshi 直俊 H06818

Born 1740

 

Naoshige 直茂 H06765

D.till 1750

 

(Kato) Naotsune直常H06850

D.ca.1775　

 

Naonori 直矩 H06751

Became the founder of the Konakamura school..D.ca.1775

 

(Takano) Naoshige 直重 H06769

D.ca.1775

 

(Morikawa) Naotoshi 直利 H06881

Dates 1764-1771

 

(Inobushi) Naohisa 直久 H06636

D.ca.1775

 

(Yamamoto) Naotaka 直隆H06789

 

I found 2 more,but with doubtful Data: Naofusa (H06600) and Naosumi (H06776)

 

　

[Toryu2020]

So does any member know of a good program that will allow you to create clean geneological charts, with English and Japanese like the family trees we see in the Japanese references?

-t

[cabowen]

Nisus Writer may well do that.....

[Toryu2020]

Thanks -

Checked out the webpage may have to try the trial version.

-t