suriage tanto on eBay

[Marius]

Hello :-)

 

I am a new member here, so let me first introduce myself :-)

 

I am a nihonto beginner living in Warsaw, Poland. I am collecting nihonto, although I cannot afford any superb blades (besides, I wouldn't even recognise one if I had the chance to see it

 

I have a question regarding an eBay item: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... &rd=1&rd=1

Does suriage in a tanto have a strong impact on the price? What do you hold of this particular tanto?

 

Best regards

 

Mariusz Kolecki

[Grey Doffin]

Mariusz,

Hi, Grey here. The only reason I can think of to do a suriage on a tanto is to disguise a defect in the blade close to the machi. If there were a ha-gire just above the ha-machi prior to the shortening it would be lost in the file marks of the new nakago after. Can't say why this tanto was shortened but I'm suspicious. The suriage looks recent. Also, the new nakago looks clumsy, too long.

I think the opening bid is full retail, maybe even more than that.

Yes, suriage always hurts value; ubu is preferred. I think suriage on a tanto is more damaging to value than on a shoto or daito.

Grey

[Stever]

I would second Grey's thoughts. The shortening looks pretty roughly done, and the rust definitely looks newer than the rest of the nakago.

 

Just for your perusal, here are some other tanto on eBay that seem reasonable:

 

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ANTIQUE-Japanese-SAMURAI-KOTO-TANTO-WAKIZASHI-SWORD_W0QQitemZ170085750706QQihZ007QQcategoryZ73466QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Japanese-TANTO-DAGGER-SHORT-SWORD-SHINTO-ERA_W0QQitemZ170086215329QQihZ007QQcategoryZ13957QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Japanese-Samurai-Sword-Terukane-Tanto_W0QQitemZ160091680908QQihZ006QQcategoryZ73466QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Japanese-SWORD_W0QQitemZ160091990854QQihZ006QQcategoryZ4080QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.ca/1963-SAMURAI-Japanese-sword-GENDAITO-ENJU-TANTO-KATANA_W0QQitemZ120093998775QQihZ002QQcategoryZ20272QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.ca/EARLY-Japanese-SWORD-TANTO_W0QQitemZ160090179344QQihZ006QQcategoryZ73466QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

I'd be interested in knowing others thoughts on these as well.

 

cheers

[pcfarrar]

I think samurai_sword1185 is the new name for mackstar (a known seller of trash) be careful!

[Bungo]

Mariusz,

Hi, Grey here. The only reason I can think of to do a suriage on a tanto is to disguise a defect in the blade close to the machi. If there were a ha-gire just above the ha-machi prior to the shortening it would be lost in the file marks of the new nakago after. Can't say why this tanto was shortened but I'm suspicious. The suriage looks recent. Also, the new nakago looks clumsy, too long.

I think the opening bid is full retail, maybe even more than that.

Yes, suriage always hurts value; ubu is preferred. I think suriage on a tanto is more damaging to value than on a shoto or daito.

Grey

 

the world's most beautiful tsunagi............

 

http://www.esnips.com/web/nihonto?docsPage=1#files

klick on all the yukimitsu files.

 

milt the ronin

[Stever]

You're right about samurai_sword1185, Peter. Here's his ID history:

 

eBay Member User ID History

 

The box below contains the User IDs that this member has used on eBay.

 

User ID: Effective Date End Date

 

samurai_sword1185 27-Feb-07 Present

 

goban_kagi1185 10-Jan-07 27-Feb-07

 

mackstar2001 26-Aug-06 10-Jan-07

 

arts-of-the-samurai 20-Jul-06 26-Aug-06

 

mackstar2001 09-Sep-01 20-Jul-06

 

Beautiful tanto, Milt. Really too bad about the hagire, but I personally wouldn't care so much unless I were selling it, and that doesn't look like a piece I'd want to sell. Gotta love that hitatsura!

 

cheers

[kusunokimasahige]

Ah the Mackster......... yaikes.......

 

did have some very angry e-mail traffic with him!! he likes to insult people e-mailing him with questions......

 

stay away!!

 

KM

[Marius]

Ah the Mackster......... yaikes.......

 

did have some very angry e-mail traffic with him!! he likes to insult people e-mailing him with questions......

 

stay away!!

 

KM

 

Thanks for your warnings, but does he actually sell damaged swords as good ones? I a not talking about selling such things as suroage tanto (which you can see on his pics), but selling swords with hagire, fukure etc or not deelivering swords paid for (in other words stealing). Some of his prices have seemed attractive to me recently, so I wonder if he is worth trying?

 

Best regards and thanks for all the highly informative answers for my suriage tanto-question :-D

[sencho]

When he was under the guise of Goban Kagi I asked him a simple and reasonable question about a sword for sale... this is what he emailed me back...

 

"stick to your fake feedback & molesting your self : its what your

good at : Give it to ya Mutha , thats what she trained ya for"

 

Nice, eh? This was the first time I had ever dealt with the guy and I was just clarifying some of the points on the description of the sword. I would stay away from him, he obviously has something to hide with what he sells.

 

Cheers

[kusunokimasahige]

I asked a question about a naginata he sold, on which clear power tool marks could be seen.......

 

he flipped!!

 

:lol:

 

KM

[Brian]

Strange guy to deal with...and almost schizophrenic. Somedays you get a decent answer, and others you get a tirade.

He hates being discussed on forums...but as long as it is factual..I see no problem.

Btw..I have bought a naginata and a yoroi doshi from him, and am very happy with both. But he flipped on another when I asked him if i could use Paypal. I sometimes get the feeling there are more than one person we are dealing with there

His stuff does seem genuine, and I haven't seen him selling fatally flawed items. I do not believe he is a crook...but some items do have flaws or are altered in some way making them less desirable. Prices will jump around a lot. Today $900...tomorrow edited to $500...then up to $1200 etc etc.

Just like the stockmarket :D

As I said...odd guy, but not a conman IMHO. Look for the flaw that isn't too apparent, and sometimes it isn't too bad. Other times maybe more serious..but I haven't seen hagire or anything like that.

 

Brian

[kusunokimasahige]

IMHO he isnt a conman either, but just a very peculiar seller who does not like any kind of criticism or even questions at all......

 

it indeed varies... i did have some normal messages of off him untill he went into tirade mode again...

 

KM

 

BTW i think it is a good thing to discuss sellers on this forum!

[Guest Simon Rowson]

I once owned an o-suriage Sukesada(?) tanto that had been cut down in antiquity from katana or wakizashi length to a mere 11.5 inches ........didn't have a nakago anything like the one being discussed on this thread however!

 

Simon

[deskjet]

just to thanks Stever for the list of tantos on e bay i did bid on a couple and won one the 1963' SAMURAI Japanese sword GENDAITO"ENJU"TANTO KATANA. which is made by ENJU TARO NOBUSHIGE quite a well known smith idont know very much about him apart from the fact he was one of the few smiths to be allowed to make swords at a time when they we out of favour and that he made a sword for the Imperial Household Agency, any further iforation on him would be interesting.

Anthony

[Henry Wilson]

Concerning the original post, to me the nakago looks like it has been welded to the balde and the rust has been added to cover the weld.

[Marius]

IMHO he isnt a conman either, but just a very peculiar seller who does not like any kind of criticism or even questions at all......

 

it indeed varies... i did have some normal messages of off him untill he went into tirade mode again...

 

KM

 

BTW i think it is a good thing to discuss sellers on this forum!

 

I must admit, I have bought two swords from this eBayer (samurai_sword1185). We had email contact with each other and the whole transaction went very smoothly, the seller being friendly. Shipping was very fast too. The swords were just as described - I have ignored what was clearly the advertisement section aboout 'Masamune school' etc., but otherwise the descriptions were correct and they were correctly describing the state of the swords.

 

This seler's auction pictures tend to over-exposed, but if you look carefully, you will see probably everything essential, like kizu etc...

 

I am indeed satisfied with the purchase and the value for money, and if someone asks me to, I will gladly send the auction links as well as my own pictures of the actual swords so that you will see if buying from this seller is worthwile.

 

Best regards

[pcfarrar]

Look at the so called Kunimitsu Kamakura tanto he's selling at the moment. It's clearly not old at all, 19th century at most. His descriptions are just full of made up rubbish and outright lies.

 

He then goes on to state "Huge Investment potential in this fine quality antique for the discerning investor" :lol:

[Marius]

Look at the so called Kunimitsu Kamakura tanto he's selling at the moment. It's clearly not old at all, 19th century at most. His descriptions are just full of made up rubbish and outright lies.

 

He then goes on to state "Huge Investment potential in this fine quality antique for the discerning investor" :lol:

 

Well, some wise collector has said that nihonto buying is like buying diamonds - if don't know what you are looking at, do not buy.

 

I strongly believe that members of this message board have a far greater knowledge than I do, and even I, with my beginner's eyes, can easily tell a shinshinto or gendai nakago from a Kamakura one. Once you take the description (i.e. advertising) out of your calculation, you certainly can acquire decent swords from this seller.

 

I am not defending him, but I would be the last one to judge him? Maybe his description is a reflection of his knowledge? I don't know, so I simply abstain from judgment. I would never want to frivolously accuse anybody. His pics are not the best, but they do not hide anything, otherwise we would not have had this thread about suriage tantos, right?

 

To accuse somebody of fraud requires hard evidence. I would be very careful here.

 

Best regards