ToniMarino Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 I wold like to know if those swords are fake or real Japanese second wwII swords... Thank you people Quote
Surfson Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 They are real swords, they just aren't Japanese. They are Chinese reproductions, in my opinion. Quote
kusunokimasahige Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 Very fake. Try also to look at the Fake swords section, you will find that in the upper part of the forum screen. KM Quote
ToniMarino Posted July 6, 2011 Author Report Posted July 6, 2011 Whay can you tell they are fake... the first one is obvious, but the second one... whitch details did you looked at? Quote
kusunokimasahige Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 Hello Toni, Well i look at sword shape, hilt and sheath. Your swords are perfect examples of Chinese junk. The sheaths of both swords are wrong because they are a: not Japanese, inscribed with characters which do not mean a thing, dragon inlay is typically Chinese, Family crests are wrong, decoration is non Japanese. Bottom piece of sword 1, clamped on piece of muck. Hilts: First sword, hilt with rayskin but wrong type for a Japanese sabre hilt. Crude and ugly cast copper/metal alloy. Second sword, crudely cast/pressed copper/metal alloy hilt, totally the wrong shape for an NCO sword, binding is totally off and not even done properly in the moulding process. Ridiculous tsuba. Swords: Blades not forged but stamped out of mediocre iron, tips of both swords totally wrong, tell tale signs of nonsensical engraving/etching which does not mean a thing, tell tale sign of the ridiculous invented flag engraving on the second sword. No Japanese sword ever had such an engraving. So "congratulations", you are the owner of two very mediocre and badly made Chinese copies. KM Quote
ToniMarino Posted July 6, 2011 Author Report Posted July 6, 2011 Oh, I didn't bought them =)... thought it would be better to check first, because a don't really understand a thing... thank you very much! Quote
kusunokimasahige Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 I am happy you did not buy them. It is my advice to keep your money in your pocket and start reading the postings on this forum carefully. Also a very good link to fake swords is: http://jssus.org/nkp/fake_japanese_swords.html Please start studying this site carefully, it will open your eyes. http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/nihonto.htm Best wishes, KM Quote
ToniMarino Posted July 6, 2011 Author Report Posted July 6, 2011 KM Thank you VERY MUCH for your help with this. You saved me some money I will put to better use. Sincerely. Antonio Quote
kusunokimasahige Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 I have only one sword at the moment. I dont buy them yet, I am still studying, but when I have the money I would buy them through members of this forum or Japanese legitimate dealers. To study these swords is rewarding in itself, and when you have studied enough and saved up for instance at least 5000 or more US$ then you can buy yourself a true beauty. KM Quote
Bruno Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 It seems that Toni is interested in buying gunto (regarding the fact he wanted to buy two chinese copies of ww2 Japanese swords). In that case, no need to save 5000$ for that, and yes it is a good idea to buy your first sword from a reliable memeber of this forum. Quote
ToniMarino Posted July 6, 2011 Author Report Posted July 6, 2011 Yes! I am interested in byuing a sword from WWII actually. Not a really ancient one, because I'm interested in collecting WWII itens. Quote
Grey Doffin Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 These aren't Chinese copies of WWII Japanese swords; no Japanese sword ever looked even remotely like these. For years I've wondered what exactly these are. 5 years ago they were very common on ebay; lately you don't see them so often. Why would someone (Chinese?) go to so much trouble to make something that looks nothing like the original? Grey Quote
Jamie Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 Grey, I think it's because they do sell. When I first started I scoured Craigslist as I don't have a lot around me and no study group. So I drove up about 40 miles north to a Very nice subdivision and looked at what this fellow thought was an ancestral blade. It looked artificially aged and like it had come out of a press, and it had these leaves that were literally the opposite of Horimono. What I mean is it had designs literally protruding off the blade. In the few years I have been studying I have not seen another representation as bad as that one. I told him that I wasn't interested and that I was sure it wasn't Japanese. He insisted I was wrong and said he had paid $2500 dollars for it. In my first year of study I saw a bunch of fakes and people insisted that they were indeed real. At least on the board here when someone posts a fake there are many folks to say this is fake, so that person doesn't feel like someone is trying to take advantage of them by saying it's fake. Quote
Surfson Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 Grey, you may be correct that they are made somewhere besides China. I sincerely doubt that they are made in Japan. The motive to make them is clear - to deceive and profit from unsuspecting or greedy novice collectors. Quote
ToniMarino Posted July 7, 2011 Author Report Posted July 7, 2011 Anyone have a WWII original sword to sell? Quote
Mark Posted July 7, 2011 Report Posted July 7, 2011 what are you looking for, NCO machine made, hand made, older blade, type of mounts? what is your target price? Quote
ToniMarino Posted July 7, 2011 Author Report Posted July 7, 2011 Anything... I belive a machine made NCO would fit better in my target price, that is around $800. Quote
Stegel Posted November 22, 2011 Report Posted November 22, 2011 Hi, I have only just joined and have been reading many posts with great interest. Reading this one i had to put my 2 cents worth in, for what little its worth. I have seen these around since the late1970's, originally i thought they were real but wasn't impressed with the workmanship or quality, hence never bought one, never showed any interest in obtaining one. Perhaps as i already had my first NLF sword with original matching officers belt some years earlier, i had acquired better taste? I suppose having the item actually in front of me, spoke volumes compared to a photograph. Anyhow about 10yrs ago i was told that these were used by Chinese collaborators under control of the Japanese, that is much like in occupied Europe with the Germans. The possibly subservient natives who perform medial tasks for the occupying forces to gain favour, or better passage through difficult times. I don't know if this is FACT, it sounded good, but there is so little info on them, which you all are aware of. Quote
Grey Doffin Posted November 22, 2011 Report Posted November 22, 2011 Hi, name please, This story is a variant of the oft heard, "made by Chinese slaves of the occupying Japanese forces." The Japanese weren't going to let the Chinese, whether friend or slave, mass produce and carry swords. And if these were made in China before the occupation or by resisting forces during the occupation, they wouldn't have a Japanese flag on them. I think the only logical answer is that these are early, post WWII fakes. But who made them and why do they look so little like the real thing? Grey Quote
Stegel Posted November 23, 2011 Report Posted November 23, 2011 Hi Grey, Quote "The Japanese weren't going to let the Chinese, whether friend or slave, mass produce and carry swords. " If you check pg 263 of Fuller & Gregory's "Japanese Military and Civil Swords and Dirks", you will find a whole chapter dedicated to collaboration, emergency issue, reproduction and fake swords. It goes on to list country by country occupied by Japan, mentioning that they were not only armed, but in some cases even uniformed in Japanese gear. over 100,000 in China alone..... interesting, eh? This particular type is not shown, however it states numerous type of swords were made and used by local militia's,under Japanese control. Quote And if these were made in China before the occupation or by resisting forces during the occupation, they wouldn't have a Japanese flag on them. My logic dictates that they were not made by "resisting forces", as why would you impersonate your enemies sword pattern? Hence, what i originally heard about these swords still holds and appears valid until proven otherwise, not necessarily FACT as i stated, but definitely plausable. Quote I think the only logical answer is that these are early, post WWII fakes. But who made them and why do they look so little like the real thing? I think the still Jury is out on that one, they may be fakes.... but no hard evidence yet to classify them as that. Having said that, i still find them a mere curiosity and wouldn't bother with them personally. Cheers Ernst BTW, sorry i haven't quite worked out the quote boxes yet.... still learning :D Quote
Weidas Posted November 23, 2011 Report Posted November 23, 2011 both swords are fakes although the first one have some similarity to Chinese army dress sword. But only similarity. Ernst, if you mean swords of army and official of occupied by Japan territories or puppet kingdoms like Manchkou, than they are totally different. Please, check our Fuller or Dawson again Quote
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