Norimitsu mei - gimei?

[David Flynn]

Jason, I thought you said you didn't have a sense of humour. You last post made me roflmao.

[gtstcactus]

David,

 

Happy to provide a little lite relief!

[Jean]

In Bizen school, the era is fundamental as it enables you to detect Gimei from the Syntax

 

Compare the signature of Jacques' post and its syntax to sue Bizen signature syntax.... its a tale tale about Sue Bizen Gimei.

 

BTW, Jacques, I don't see Bishu Osafune Ju as signature in your document but I have not looked very hard

[Brian]

Last chance to insult each other folks...this one is headed for the lock soon.

 

Brian

[Jean]

Talking about syntax, here is the explanation:

 

The right signature for a Nambokucho smith will be :

 

Bizen Koku Osafune so and so

 

For a sue Muromachi:

 

Bizen Kuni ju Osafune so and so,

 

 

Now don't look at books saying "I have found a mei in Sue Muromachi written: Bizen kuni Osafune Ju so and so"" it will be at 99% Gimei. This is invaluable information.

 

Koizumi Hisao in the Nihon to Koza (revised by Dr Honma Junji has written P. 366

 

"Within the imits of what I have seen, Most of the Sue Bizen Mono with a mei of Bishu Osafune JU so and so and Bizen Kuni Osafune ju so and so were gimei"

[loiner1965]

Last chance to insult each other folks...this one is headed for the lock soon.

 

Brian

i like these slightly heated debates as it brings out vasts amounts of valuable knowledge thrown across to each other like touche....way over my head may i add but highly valuable

[gtstcactus]

Now don't look at books saying "I have found a mei in Sue Muromachi written: Bizen kuni Osafune Ju so and so"" it will be at 99% Gimei. This is invaluable information.

 

Koizumi Hisao in the Nihon to Koza (revised by Dr Honmaenjsi has written P. 366

 

"Within the imits of what I have seen, Most of the Sue Bizen Mono with a mei of Bishu Osafune JU so and so and Bizen Kuni Osafune ju so and so were gimei"

 

So he is saying within the limits of what he has seen....... One can't rule out what he has not seen.... Maybe there was a Norimitsu & Son that lived in relative seclusion who's works have gone unrecorded.Unlikely I know but not impossible..

[Lee Bray]

Jason, Norimitsu and son?

If you're going to ignore the opinion of some of the most knowledgeable members using the best references around and make up your own smiths, maybe you should just send it straight to shinsa and save everyone lots of time?

[paulb]

Jason,

You are right, you cant rule out what you havent seen. When carrying out research in this or most other fields you have to look at the most likely (and simplest) explanation as this is most likely the closest to the truth. The more complex your theories become the less likely they are to be accurate.

You are entering the world of fantasy on this one. Something you are entitled to do and if it gives you enjoyment fine. However such fantasies are best not shared.

[sanjuro]

Norimitsu and Son??????????? This is getting ridiculous. I can understand Jason wanting his sword to be genuine and not gimei, but if you have to invent swordsmiths to make yourself comfortable with the idea that this is some kind of lost mistake by an otherwise good smith, then look again.

 

What a novel approach to the study of nihonto...... Every time someone forges a signature on a sword, he invents a new swordsmith ?..... Never mind about the workmanship and all the other considerations, or that a very high percentage of signed blades are in fact gimei.

[gtstcactus]

Jeez Guys,

 

Chill out take a valium, I was joking..... We've established you guys think it's gimei, I've had opinions both on the gimei and legit unknown side of the fence... Yes it's not in the books people have looked at, maybe it's just someone thats gone under the radar.

 

If it's gimei who's signature is it supposed to be a forgery of? No one you say? because no one signed that way.... Maybe this norimitsu had next to no surviving works left. Now thats a simple explanation....

 

It will go to shinsa in sydney.

[Jean]

In fact, When in Nihonto koza, the author states that he has seldom seen genuine mei with the syntax Bizen Kuni Osafune Ju (in sue Bizen) it means there are some.

 

Now, the author had seen thousand swords. He is very modest in his diclaimer :

Within the imits of what I have seen

, so they are scarce.

 

Any blade having this mei must be validated by shinsa. The cost of Shinsa compare to blade value has to be carefully weighted.

[gtstcactus]

The cost of NTHK shinsa in Sydney is pretty damn reasonable..... Small price to pay to get an answer...