Long Matchlock

[bluelake]

Thomas, Thank you for the new pictures, particularly that of the barrel marking. Having now a complete example I can see the same shapes in that on the original gun you illustrate. I can also see the differences in the pan cover between the Korean and Japanese guns that Piers points out. As Ron so correctly says, guns from the two cultures are so amazingly similar that it makes you wonder how many guns around the world, at present thought to be Japanese, are in fact Korean. If each village had an armoury stocked with guns, it seems inevitable that some have survived and are now unrecognised for what they really are. Plenty of Korean helmets were brought back as trophies and were incorporated by the Japanese into their armours. Perhaps they brought back guns as well.

Ian B

 

You're welcome, Ian

 

It's interesting you should mention the Japanese bringing guns back. As there was not much contact, at least militarily, between 1598 and 1875, there may not have been many Korean matchlocks brought back to Japan by soldiers (although there may have been a few during the second Hideyoshi invasion, as Korean matchlock making had improved a little by that time). Still, during the Japanese colonial period of Korea, many of their early cartridge weapons were taken to Japan; a person I know, who is one of the foremost experts on the Remington rolling block, has one of them that he got from a Japanese fellow. That being the case, I think it is likely many Korean matchlocks were also taken back to Japan during the colonial period.

 

At the same time, many Korean matchlocks were taken to the United States in 1871 following the US military action. In Rear-Admiral John Rodgers report dated July 5, 1871 (two days after the US fleet left Korean waters back to China), he wrote, "...four hundred and eighty-one pieces of ordnance fell into our hands, besides very many match-locks and gingalls." One of those matchlocks was given to the mother of a US Navy lieutenant who was killed in action; she, in turn, donated it (and other items) to what is now Transylvania University in Lexington, Kentucky. Unfortunately, the only items that are still in the university's collection are a small cannon and a cotton helmet (there is also an armor vest, but it didn't seem Korean to me). I'm sure there were many others brought home, by both officers and crew. Here is the only known picture of those items, taken in 1950.

 

 

 

Thomas

[IanB]

Thomas, Somewhere, and no I cannot remember where but it might be in Boots or Needham, I read the Japanese gave a vast present of arms and armour to the Koreans on the occasion of a Royal wedding during the Edo period. What sticks in my mind was some thirty odd armours and I think guns and swords. This suggests there was some interchange going on on a diplomatic level at least. Interesting that the photo you show includes a Japanese jingasa. As you say, poor old Korea was ravaged and looted by everybody and his brother so it isn't surprising there is almost nothing left. We do have a Korean helmet in the Royal Armouries and I believe there is one in the British Museum, but to my knowledge that is the sum total of known Korean material in the UK, although there may be the odd cannon kicking about.

Ian

[bluelake]

Ian,

 

It's unfortunate the picture from the 1950 newspaper article is so dark; years ago I tried to see if the newspaper had the original negative, but it seems as though it's as lost as most of the items taken from Korea in 1871. The hat you see in the picture, although the relative size and shape of the Japanese jingasa, is actually a Korean officer's hat called a "jeollip" (戰笠) or "beongeoji".

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thomas

[bluelake]

On a different, but somewhat related note, one item that is with the 1871 Korean items at Transylvania University was some armor. There was no armor on the inventory of the 1871 items and it looks Japanese to me (I'm quite sure it is not Korean, in any case).

 

[IanB]

Thomas, Absolutely correct - a ni mai hon kozane do that looks as if it may have been a nice armour.

Ian B

[bluelake]

Thomas, Absolutely correct - a ni mai hon kozane do that looks as if it may have been a nice armour.

Ian B

 

Thanks, Ian

[Bugyotsuji]

Thomas, here is a typical Awa-style 狭間筒　Hazama-dzutsu. Small bore of 1.1cm. Lots of pics at bottom of page.

http://www.seiyudo.com/GU-08132.htm

[bluelake]

Thomas, here is a typical Awa-style 狭間筒　Hazama-dzutsu. Small bore of 1.1cm. Lots of pics at bottom of page.

http://www.seiyudo.com/GU-08132.htm

 

Thanks, Piers

 

 

Thomas

[Bugyotsuji]

Since this thread went quiet I have been thinking and talking about it with various people.

 

The long gun you posted, Thomas, has more resemblance with some of the Inatomi School Keicho

Period long guns, many of which were sent over and used in the Korea campaign. They are quite

rare in Japan today, but I have seen about 10-12 examples in the last 10 years here. I took some

photos today of a couple of 160 cm examples, the 'baby' one slimmer, the other much heavier and

with 4 sights.

 

They tend to be long and quite straight, even through the butt. What I learned recently is that the

very straight ones are called Chosen-yuki (? or something, need to check the word) Keicho-deppo,

and the reason for this is that the straighter ones packed tighter into the boxes they were shipped over in.

 

Unfortunately I am not optimistic about the two countries cooperating on forming a muzzle-loading

club or a matchlock demo troop. The reasons seem stupid to outsiders but too real to those involved.

I think it would be better for the Koreans to go ahead and form something and work from there with

inner pride.

[Bugyotsuji]

The two long guns in the lower part of the picture.

 

Plus a contemporary illustration of long-distance sights on an Inatomi-Ryu (-School) long gun.

[bluelake]

I'm sorry I didn't reply to this thread earlier--I was out of Korea for the summer and got quite busy when I returned.

 

Thanks for the info, Piers, along with the pictures--they are all very interesting.

 

Yes, a muzzleloading association in Korea will probably need to be a by-the-bootstraps effort here in Korea, but I may be asking for some help/advice on this forum from time to time If all goes well, I plan to take my repro matchlock to the Korea Military Academy sometime this next month, as profs and museum staff have never shot one. If it works out--my schedule may preclude it--I'll take some pictures of the event and post them here.

 

 

Thomas

[Bugyotsuji]

Good luck Thomas, and I am sure we all look forward to seeing your pictures and hearing how

it goes.

 

If you are free next month (October) on the 2nd, 8th or 9th we will be doing displays in the Chugoku area of Western

Japan, and again on the 13th November, combining with local festivals.

 

There are regular cheap flights between Seoul and Okayama.

 

Other companies will I am sure be doing events in other areas of Japan throughout the year which may be more

convenient for you.

[bluelake]

Thanks for the info on the events; I really wish I could go to them. Unfortunately, as it is, I rarely am even able to visit my son (he teaches at another university in another city here in Korea) due to my schedule. However, I am hoping to have a bit more time from next year (my dissertation should be published), so visiting then might be a possibility.

 

 

Thomas

[estcrh]

I found this picture of a long Tanegashima, Nagoya Castle Japan.

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Found various references to that floor in Nagoya Castle, Eric, but no Japanese site so far that

gives any meaningful detail on those guns. I'd love to be able to see what is written on the

wall there.

[estcrh]

Found various references to that floor in Nagoya Castle, Eric, but no Japanese site so far that

gives any meaningful detail on those guns. I'd love to be able to see what is written on the

wall there.

It is the longest one I have seen, I would be interested in what it says as well.

[estcrh]

Found various references to that floor in Nagoya Castle, Eric, but no Japanese site so far that

gives any meaningful detail on those guns. I'd love to be able to see what is written on the

wall there.

I found this, any help?

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Ha, very clever!

 

That seems to be talking about Japanese Hinawa-ju matchlocks in general and what eventually

happened to the ones in Nagoya Castle, at least that is what my strained eyes can pick out.

[estcrh]

Piers, this is the best I could get it, sorry.

[Bugyotsuji]

Hmmm... it's a bit sad to see that the authorities feel the need to write furigana to help the general populace read the Chinese characters. :|

[cabowen]

Hmmm... it's a bit sad to see that the authorities feel the need to write furigana to help the general populace read the Chinese characters. :|

 

 

They get lots of school children on class trips (as well as foreign visitors) that can't yet read all the standard kanji. Then there is the fact that frequently historical events, people, and items, have specialized or infrequently used kanji that most people can't read period....

[Bugyotsuji]

Yes, true, Chris.

 

(I was probably subconsciously reflecting sadly on the dumbing down of the news back in the country of my own birth.)

[bluelake]

Any idea on the length/caliber of that looooooooong matchlock? That looks huge!

[bluelake]

This past Monday, I spent the day with faculty and staff from the Korea Military Academy. We went to a Korean Army rifle range and we shot my reproduction matchlock; it is the first time in over a century that the Korean military personnel shot such a firearm. The purpose was to not only let Koreans experience doing so, but to also collect data. They made a very big production out of it (It was originally planned as an informal event, but it became quite formal). There were all kinds of people recording the event (photos, videos, etc.). Also, the superintendent of the Academy was very concerned about safety; I assured the KMA people that, as long as safety procedures are followed, it is quite safe. Everyone followed safety rules and all was fine.

 

I had to pick up the black powder from a company about 100km from my place; it was arranged for by the KMA. BP is highly restricted here in Korea, so it was quite an exception given to me to bring it to the event. I had sticker shock, however, about its price--400g cost me about $80; in the States, it's only about $15-20 (plus a hazmat fee for delivery--still cheaper). I'm curious--how much is bp in Japan?

 

My biggest concern was misfires and hangfires, which we certainly had a few of. I knew it would probably happen, so I let people know ahead of time. Still, every shot eventually went off.

 

I shot at a target they set up 50m away. They had me do the first shooting, as I had the experience. Fortunately, I hit the target each time and not too far from center; my pride was intact Later, they put a body armor vest on the wood backboard and I put a roundball in it; it put quite a dent in the vest and fairly deep into the backboard.

 

Later, a couple officers, including a close friend of mine, shot the musket. They became, undoubtedly, the first Korean army officers to shoot a matchlock in over a century.

 

Later, we went back to the KMA ballistics laboratory, as they wanted to chronograph it. I shot a couple .45 cal. balls with 45gr and also 70gr. The 70gr. shot at around 400m/sec.

 

I think the interest is there to eventually start an association for muzzleloading here in Korea. At least the first step was taken. Here are a few pics.

 

Notice the one of me in the laboratory and no match cord. As the computer that controlled the chrono needed input from a gunshot within 20 sec., we could not risk hangfires or misfires. We used paper fuse put directly into the vent. It did the job.:

 

 

 

Our core group with the matchlock and Traditional Muzzleloading Association banner:

 

 

Col. Ki-hoon Kim became the first Korean officer to fire a matchlock in over a century:

 

 

Another officer became the second:

[Bugyotsuji]

Very interesting story and great write-up, Thomas.

 

Yes, black powder is very expensive here in Japan and the paperwork involved is prohibitive. Naturally it has to go through the Police and they are so afraid of the possibility of accidents since whoever stamped the papers will be held responsible. We had a nasty accident earlier this year. I can find out the exact price if you like. The donation that is sometimes given for the displays is often not enough to cover the cost of our meals and the black powder.

 

PS How on earth did you get a reproduction matchlock into SK? They are totally prohibited here.

[bluelake]

Very interesting story and great write-up, Thomas.

 

Yes, black powder is very expensive here in Japan and the paperwork involved is prohibitive. Naturally it has to go through the Police and they are so afraid of the possibility of accidents since whoever stamped the papers will be held responsible. We had a nasty accident earlier this year. I can find out the exact price if you like. The donation that is sometimes given for the displays is often not enough to cover the cost of our meals and the black powder.

 

PS How on earth did you get a reproduction matchlock into SK? They are totally prohibited here.

 

Thanks, Piers--If you ever find out the price, it would be interesting to know.

 

Although firearms aren't prohibited here in SK, they are highly restricted. In this case, I received special permission (over a year ago) for educational/academic purposes. Except for the time at the Academy, it will never be fired; however, if a traditional association gets off the ground, this past Monday may have just been the first of many times. Here's hoping! :D

 

 

Thomas