Tsuba from my Shinshinto katana

[JCook]

These photos were attached in a post in another section relating to my katana, and it was suggested I post them here instead. My question was whether the tsuba is in fact authentic, or is a replica of some sort - I neglected to ask the seller when I purchased the sword 13 years ago. Thank you in advance for your thoughts!

 

Jed

 

The first and last pictures are included to show the outer edge and an interior section - I don't see any seams.

 

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Jed,

The more I see of your sword the more I think the whole thing, blade and mounts, is a reproduction/fake. The notches in the nakago hitsu ana of your tsuba are unusual, and the thinned down top fin of the fish forming the outside rim of the tsuba seems unlikely (it would be too easily broken in use). The seppa (washer) with gear teeth is very unusual. The fuchi looks to be cast; not so with real Nihonto.

The picture above that shows the first inch or 2 of the blade looks like a cosmetic temperline superimposed on phony grain. The pictures of this sword in the Nihonto forum had me suspicious; the long polished area between the machi and the mekugi-ana is not normally seen.

For your sake I hope I'm wrong.

Grey

[Curran]

Grey,

 

This is a weird one.

I lean towards believing it is a sword, but that the whole ensemble is sort of an amateurish construct by someone who kinda knew what they were doing.

 

The tsuba design pops up in late edo and thereafter. I've seen some cast, but others just kinda crudely done, and one or two that were done my true artisans.

The jigane looks legit, but the ha and hamon is off. Notice all the overly apparent masame running below the hamon along the length of the cutting edge. Ever seen that before?

 

The tsuka wrap shows the tell tales of an amateur (non-Japanese wrap). Very few veterans can do them right outside of Japan.

Habaki is a bit crude, but not like a chinese made collar.

______________________________________________

 

Not sure what to make of this one? Some half educated collector's attempt to dress up a blade that he might have polished himself?

I need someone like Ted Tenold to tell me what the heck is going on with that polish.

[JCook]

Grey,

 

This is a weird one.

I lean towards believing it is a sword, but that the whole ensemble is sort of an amateurish construct by someone who kinda knew what they were doing.

 

The tsuba design pops up in late edo and thereafter. I've seen some cast, but others just kinda crudely done, and one or two that were done my true artisans.

The jigane looks legit, but the ha and hamon is off. Notice all the overly apparent masame running below the hamon along the length of the cutting edge. Ever seen that before?

 

The tsuka wrap shows the tell tales of an amateur (non-Japanese wrap). Very few veterans can do them right outside of the USA.

Habaki is a bit crude, but not like a chinese made collar.

______________________________________________

 

Not sure what to make of this one? Some half educated collector's attempt to dress up a blade that he might have polished himself?

I need someone like Ted Tenold to tell me what the heck is going on with that polish.

 

Interesting comments. I should probably have clarified (although it didn't occur to me to do so) that I am certain that the sword fittings were put together by the seller (as in, the individual who sold it to me...). I recall him noting that he had acquired the blade at a show/convention of some sort and then paired it with the furniture. As noted, I did not ask if the fittings were authentic or not.

 

I also didn't ask who had restored/polished the blade as the grain of the blade actually appealed to my untrained eye - he may have done it himself. As for the blade's authenticity, based on how I was introduced to the seller, I am disinclined to question his integrity. Again,

 

I appreciate the comments and thoughts.

 

Jed

[sanjuro]

Gentlemen.

 

Although I'm not up there with the likes of Ted and Grey et al, I have two cents worth that might shed some light. Ignoring the koshirae for a moment, I have come across this hamon effect before. A sword was offered to me a couple of years ago with almost identical hamon to this. It was shinshinto and genuine enough. The hamon was in fact a sudareba that had been polished by a WMI. The notare type overlay had been effected when the would -be polisher had used hadori to follow what he thought was the temper line. Result: this same rather bizarre mixture we see in the present sword.

[Curran]

Thought it might be something like that, though I also thought it might be an amateur polished Showa period sword. I just don't recall seeing that sort of masame.

 

Either way, gent has asked for attribution and valuation. Not much chance any can do that on a mystery mix like this one. It is one I would actually recommend go to ebay when time comes to sell it.

[Ted Tenold]

I saw this sword on the other thread.

 

I have little doubt the blade has been etched which has exaggerated the hada in both ji and yakiba manifesting an odd look. These days, with all the production swords out there that are overwhelmingly etched for time and cost expediency, it's reasonable to have a knee jerk reaction and judge "repro" at the first glimpse of a sword like this. As Jed posted in the other thread, it was his understanding that the person he got this sword from did the restoration himself, but the polish also suggests it was burnished in some measure of traditional tools, but also somewhat hurried and overworked also. The close up of the shinogiji shows the metal looks crushed or what I call "bruised". So the polish may have been a quickie Showa era job, or perhaps the shinogiji masked off prior to etch. I'm sure it would be much more conclusive in hand, but based on what we see, the point is moot anyways.

 

My guess is a shinshinto era sword that was machiokuri to lengthen the nakago deep into length of the tsuka (based on the number of hishi in the tsukamaki, the tsuka is about 11 inches long) and subsequently remounted again in these mounts. The western belief of the "full tang" sword superiority is less a mantra these days, but was very prevalent up to a few years ago (it was a wrongly applied marketing perception of "quality" that immigrated from the knife world). The habaki was likely original before the machiokuri as the rubbing starts at the new ana right about where the original sabigawa starts, but doens't extend much below it. The nakago looks older than Showa, and the work Mino-esque.

 

The saya is really oddly shaped with sharp ebizaya"ish" shape and a toppei like jiri which don't really harmonize. The seppa are an odd mix of low quality mismatches. The samegawa is obviously white and new, and the tsukamaki not strong in installation.

 

I'd defer to others on the Tsuba. Not my area of focus. The odd nakago ana could suggests the shape of a duel or prior mounting for a yari or ken.

 

Overall, looks like a DIY re-mounted shinshinto intended as a "working" blade.

 

That's my opinion...worth what I charge for it. :lol:

[Curran]

Ted,

 

Thank you for the clarification.

I had started to ask whether the hada was acid etched or not.

It looked better than some of the production blades, but the puzzle pieces weren't quite fitting.

 

I'd also wondered if it might be an effort by one of the independent american smiths, but thought the geometry looked more on the side of an acutal Japanese blade than one of the US well intentioned hybrids.

[k morita]

Hi,

The one looked like this tsuba(Jed's tsuba) on a book.

Tetsugendo, the 2nd gen,Naofusa.

The difference of the capability is understood well,and Naofusa's carp is more real.