Ken Tanto? - Koto? Shinshinto?

[La Espada Ancha]

Hello,

 

For your collective consideration: Would this tanto be considered a ken? I ask as the blade profile is not exactly symmetrical, a trait I tend to associate with ken (though based solely on what I have read).

 

Were ken also produced that were slightly asymmetrical in blade profile (as this one is)? If so, was this interpretation associated with a given time period? Hamon appears to be notareba (or would you consider it to be gunome?). I can't discern any visible file marks on the nakago.

 

Any input with regards to age would be greatly appreciated, as would any additional comments. Thanks in advance for the same...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jean]

Rather Moroha if 2 cutting edges or shobuzukuri if one.

 

Or badly reshaped ...

[La Espada Ancha]

Hello Jean,

 

Thank you for the information. I am trying to find more information on the development of Moroha-Zukuri tanto (it is double-edged). Any suggestions? Also, would you have any idea as to a general age/timeframe?

 

Thank you once again...

[sanjuro]

Interesting variation on the moroha zukuri theme... It seems to be trying very hard to look like a ken.

I'd sort of lean toward a yoroi otoshi description as well. If thats the case, then the blade would be an older one which is what it appears to be.

 

Interesting...........

[IanB]

Chris, There is an almost identical tanto in the Deryk Ingham, collection now in the Royal Armouries, that is inscribed on the tang as being Ko garasu maru. It is in fact exactly like the top end of that blade, and like your tanto, appears to have been made as such and never to have had the lower part with the grooves. RA's tanto is in a very sombre black lacquered mount with the Shimazu kamon.

Ian Bottomley

[Toryu2020]

Moroha zukuri,

I would say late Muromachi given the color of the nakago, condition of the blade and complete lack of machi...

-t

[La Espada Ancha]

Hello Ian, Keith, and Thomas...

 

Thank you each for your respective input.

 

Ian, I've read your bio. As someone degreed in mathematics who spent his first career in a rather tedious arm of the IT industry, I can appreciate your professional journey and eventual transition into a field more closely aligned with your own passions and interests. Is there an online reference to the aforementioned tanto?

 

Keith, where might you suggest I look to learn more of yoroi otoshi? I'm always looking for good suggestions as to what to add next to my reference library.

 

Thomas, thank you for the feedback with regards to a possible timeframe. If I am interpreting the preceding posts correctly, it still sounds as if there might be a considerable window during which this might have been made?

 

Thanks again...

 

Chris

[IanB]

Chris, Sadly no. It was one of 57 swords in the Ingham collection, and although very well mounted, was not one of the more important items.

Ian

[Toryu2020]

Chris-

In the late Muromachi blade shapes like this, moroha-zukuri, shobu-zukuri, kanmuri-otoshi and others became popular. Short stout tanto made for use as armor-piercers from that era could all generally be called yoroi-doshi which means "armor-piercer". Double thick hira-zukuri blades are most often described as such.

 

They again become popular in the late-Edo period. I would study the shapes of dated examples from both eras and draw your own conclusions...

 

A nice little piece BTW

-t

[sanjuro]

Chris.

 

As Thomas has correctly pointed out, the yoroi doshi type of blade was an armour piercer. He and I are both suggesting in different ways that yours is an earlier blade. Most certainly the nature of the blade, its general stoutness, the nakago and patination, the mekugi ana and loss of machi due to polishing indicate koto.

Late Muromachi would be the more likely of the two eras in which such blades (and your blade) were made, since the examples made in the late Edo period were more an affectation or copies of those earlier practical blades. (Grappling in armour, where an armour piercing tanto would be used, was no longer a factor of samurai confrontations in the late Edo period).

Whilst it is not entirely clear from the photographs, your blade seems to have a suguha hamon. Is that just the lighting or is there indeed a hamon line visible?

[La Espada Ancha]

Hello again Ian, Thomas, and Keith,

 

Ian, in lieu of an online reference, did the museum ever publish a catalog of the collection, and if so, might you know of where one may be found?

 

Thomas and Keith, thank you both again for the feedback, and the design does make sense in the context of the historical period during that time in Japanese feudal history. To answer your question Keith, there is indeed a visible hamon, though given the undulation (in places significant undulation), I'm not sure I would consider it suguha - more like gunome midare IMO...

 

Regards,

 

Chris

[IanB]

Chris, Yes, the list of Deryk Ingham's collection has been published previously. I remember sending a copy to JSSUS and it has appeared in several Royal Armouries publications. Since it may be of interest, I append scans from one of these publications that list the swords and blades held by the Museum. Most notable are the two Juyo blades XXVIS.369 and XXVIS.368 as well as the tachi blade XXVIS.297 and the fully mounted wakizashi XXVIS.198. At present the bulk of the collection is in Leeds, UK but the Yamato Shizu [XXVIS.368] and the Gassan Sadakatsu [XXVIS.335] (incorrectly listed as 1900) are at the moment on display in the Tower of London. The tanto that is so similar to yours in shape, but not in date is XXVIS.352. These swords and blades are available for study. Some are on display whilst others are in store and we would need prior notice to arrange a visit.

Ian

[bluboxer]

Take a look at this link Chris.There are 3 tanto that fit yours.The first is described as ken like while the other two are moroha zukuri which I also believe to be correct.

http://home.comcast.net/~colhartley/Ori ... dArmor.htm

Look at 6,41 and 48 (below).

[La Espada Ancha]

Thank you Alan for the link to similar examples, and a rather belated thank you to you, Ian for the catalog information - definitely something I would want to pursue seeing on my next trip to the UK.

 

Regards,

 

Chris