Opinions needed on tsuba comparision.

[czoller]

I posted this tsuba about a month ago looking for comments. I received several answers which confirmed my suspicion that this tsuba was probably late Edo shiiremono. I thought this correct and moved on. I am still very much a novice at this. In the course of further readings, on various subjects, I stumbled upon the following web site. Please look at the Ko-Kinko tsuba about 3/4's of the way down the page.

 

http://www.swordsandtsuba.com/tsuba/miscpage1.html (Item T026).

 

It appears to me to be an exact copy of my tsuba (attached). It is the same size. I compared images from that site and mine with photoshop and they match perfectly (adjusting for image size, an kogai hitsu-ana, no fukurin, and wear). One question is about the site's attribution. I do not have a copy of the reference cited to confirm any statements made. I know that sanmai tsubas can be made with a mold for the plates.

Was the same mold used on both tsubas? Does this indicate the same time of manufacture? Is the 1700's a correct time frame? Is Goto style correct? Could mine be a copy made at a later date? Or . . .

Any comments would be appreciated.

 

Chris

[nagamaki - Franco]

  czoller said:

Please look at the Ko-Kinko tsuba about 3/4's of the way down the page.

 

Is the 1700's a correct time frame?

 

fyi, http://world.choshuya.co.jp/kokinkou/index.htm

[Soshin]

Franco,

 

The article you linked to is consistent with my understanding. Ko-Kinko is a general category for soft metal tsuba dated before the Edo Period. The date 1700 and Ko-Kinko classification doesn't make much sense together. Edo period soft metal tsuba dated from about 1700 would be classified as just Kinko.

 

Chris,

 

Does you tsuba show layers in the inside surfaces of the nakago and hitsu-ana? If so then it could be a Sanmai tsuba which is constructed of three sandwiched plates of soft metal. This construction can be seen on the interior of the nakago-and hitsu-ana. The plate decoration is done by a repose technique, working the design from the back of the plate, sometimes hammered into a pattern mold. Some Sanmai tsuba will have the exact same design on both sides (the same plate design being used on the front and back); others will have different designs on each side of the tsuba. The plates are normally of floral, scenic, dragons or mon design. Some sanmai tsuba have Goto style designs. Commonly the plates will have some type of gold wash on areas of the design. I think you tsuba like the one listed in the website is a Sanmai tsuba assuming layering can be observed along the inside surfaces of the openings of your tsuba. Here is a good article about Sanmai tsuba: http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/tsuba/sanmai.htm.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David S.

[docliss]

Does one ever see a sanmai tsuba without a fukurin? I would have assumed that the absence of the latter feature excludes such a classification. John L.

[czoller]

Franco,

 

Thank you for your information. I agree with what that site says. I was just questioning the information I read on the site I referenced and how it pertains to my tsuba. I guess either the date stated or the description is wrong.

 

David,

 

My tsuba is definitely sanmai. As a matter os fact, there is a bit of plate separation in the nakago ana and the copper is plainly visible. And the image is the same on both sides, just like the one referenced on the web site.

 

John,

I do not know why the fukurin is missing. As mentioned above, the tsuba is definitely brass(?) layered over copper.

 

All,

I am asking about what information I can deduce about my tsuba from the web site listed. Is it strange that the two tsuba have exactly the same cover plates?

 

Thanks,

Chris

[Soshin]

  czoller said:

All,

I am asking about what information I can deduce about my tsuba from the web site listed. Is it strange that the two tsuba have exactly the same cover plates?

 

Thanks,

Chris

 

Chris,

 

I don't think the website you site in your original post is really that helpful in identifying your tsuba. The website I provided has much more helpful information for the purpose of identification. Popular designs on Sanmai tsuba were often reproduced from the Momoyama on through to the Edo Period with popular designs like a dragon often being repeated. In regards to a fukurin I have seen them on some Sanmai tsuba and not on others. The feature is not characteristic of the group but the construction of the plate and how the design is created are critical characteristics of the group. Just my two cents on the topic.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David S.

[czoller]

David,

 

Thank you for the information. So as it stands now all I can say for certain is that I have a sanmai tsuba (brass over copper) with a common dragon and waves theme, and no fukurin. I think it is also safe to assume it was made at the same time as another using the same plate mold (my opinion only). I can not come to a conclusion on the date, but am leaning to late Edo and probably shiiremono.

 

Regards,

Chris

[Pete Klein]

Chris -- after comparing the images I am willing to say you are spot on.