See on the French Forum

[Jean]

http://cgi.ebay.fr/ANTIQUE-Japanese-TAN ... 19c5d11697

[Bugyotsuji]

来国光

[Brian]

Yep..that's one of Christian Chaffees swords. He gets a ton of swords through his antiques business. Christian knows values, and if something sells for $225..it isn't a hidden treasure. That might even qualify as most stuffed sword of the year :?

 

Brian

[sanjuro]

This is one that Hideyoshi's sword hunt missed..... The only way it could be more stuffed up is if it were melted down. :D

[Jean]

Just to say, a lot of money for a dead blade

[Ted Tenold]

Perhaps we should take a moment of silence for this sword.

[Jean]

This is where Orekaeshi mei has all its meaning ...

[reinhard]

"I treat every customer like family."

 

I wonder what his family looks like.

 

reinhard

[hybridfiat]

A lot of very sad swords on that list.

Brings tears to the eyes to think what the previous owners did with them.

[Jean]

"I treat every customer like family."

 

Right Reinhard, I am for euthanasia

[kusunokimasahige]

Kiri sute Gomen !

 

KM

[sanjuro]

HJ

 

Between your Japanese comments and your Latin mottos, your posts are becoming increasingly difficult to read. Please stop rubbing our noses in your education and stick to English.

[kusunokimasahige]

I will Keith... I was referring to a rule in Japan which allowed a Samurai to cut down anyone insulting him on the spot.

 

Kiri sute gomen (斬り捨て御免 or 切り捨て御免: literally, "authorization to cut and leave" (the body of the victim) is an old Japanese expression dating back to the feudal era right to strike. Samurai had the right to strike with sword at anyone of a lower class who was compromising their honour. This applied to higher ranked samurai striking lower ranked samurai.

 

Because the right was defined as a part of self defense, the strike had to follow immediately after the offense, meaning that the striker could not attack someone for a past grievance. Also, due to the right being self defense, it was not permissible to deliver further coup de grâce. Moreover, the samurai who exercised the right had to prove the correctness of his action in court by producing witness. Punishment for the incorrect exercise of this right was severe. An offender could be beheaded without being allowed to commit seppuku and have his house abolished, meaning that one of his sons could not succeed the title. Due to the seriousness of the punishment, many committed seppuku to pre-empt the verdict. A samurai visiting different feudal province had to be extremely careful, especially if it was in Edo, the seat of Shogun. Wrongful executions of commoners from different feudal province were seen as an offense against a feudal state. It was thus advisable for samurai visiting different provinces to be accompanied by his servant, so as to provide witness.

 

Because of somewhat arbitrary nature of this right, anyone who were at the receiving end had the right to defend themselves by wakizashi (short sword). This situation was most common in the case of a higher samurai exercising the right against a lower ranked samurai as samurai would always carry wakizashi. In one well known incident, a commoner bumped into a samurai. The samurai pointed out the disrespect but the commoner refused to apologise. Feeling merciful, the samurai offered the commoner his wakizashi so he had a chance to defend himself. Instead, the commoner decided to run away with his wakizashi, causing further dishonour. The incident resulted in the samurai being disowned from the clan. He later regained his honour by seeking out the commoner and killing the whole family.

 

The expression is still sometimes used in modern day as "I apologise in advance for this one" for the subtle humour in offering what amounts to an unsympathetic apology.

 

KM

[sanjuro]

HJ

 

I am aware of the meaning of the term 'Kiri sute gomen' and its derivation and also the customs associated with it. My comment was to the effect that only a few members on this board speak Japanese and even fewer speak Latin, hence what you say in those languages is not understood universally.

[kusunokimasahige]

Ah okay, thank you for the explanation Keith.

 

I have looked through the items of this seller and i was quite apalled. Not because he is selling what in my view amounts to muck, but the horrendous state these blades are in. That just hurts.

 

KM

[george trotter]

Speaking of "kiri sute gomen"...wasn't there a story of a samurai who used this as an excuse to test a blade? Going down an alley one night the samurai decided to try the edge of his new shinshinto blade (supposedly by a famous maker) on a beggar sleeping there...he did so but the blade failed to cut, which was acutely embarrassing, but became more so when the beggar started to draw a jeering crowd by shouting out "what a bad neighbourhood this is, when even a beggar sleeping in an alley can be struck by a ruffian with an iron bar" :lol: ...I like it.

 

About Christian Chaffee and the comment about how he treats his clients...I think the comments are a bit unfair...I have found him to be an honourable dealer who is trustworthy. I would not hesitate to deal with him again. He has had many swords from deseased estates over the years, some very good, some not so good...I don't think it is Christian who mistreated these swords, but the one-time owners. If the swords are low quality, don't bid.

Just my experience with him,

Geo.

[Marius]

 

Kiri sute gomen (斬り捨て御免 or 切り捨て御免: (cut)

 

The expression is still sometimes used in modern day as "I apologise in advance for this one" for the subtle humour in offering what amounts to an unsympathetic apology.

 

Henk-Jan,

 

would you mind quoting some sources? Might be an interesting read.

[DirkO]

It's from Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiri_sute_gomen

[Brian]

I have dealt with Christian before, and he is well known and a decent enough guy. He is also a member here, and I am sure will be along very shortly. I am sure he won't mind the truth about these items. Nothing wrong with a dealer listing some of the lesser swords he has for sale. eBay will find its own price level. He posts all the pics, so nothing is hidden. The items have little to do with the person.

 

Brian

[Jean]

The items have little to do with the person.

 

Of course, but what is surprising is to see at what length some people can go to ruin a blade (and generally not the seller)