Is this tsuba actually worth what the seller is asking?

[chuck]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Edo-period-tatemaru ... 231076e00a

 

Not that I'm thinking of bidding on it. But since I've started collecting and trying to understand tsuba and tsosogu, I've been looking at as many examples as I can find (even on eBay - I love it when I can spot a fake!). This looks to me like a real tsuba, but also pretty unexceptional.

 

But I've seen unexceptional looking tsubas before with hefty price tags. So if this is, in fact, a reasonable price for this tsuba, I am interested in understanding why that is the case.

 

In other words, what is it that makes this particular tsuba rare and valuable? (assuming it is at all)?

 

Thanks!

[raven2]

The general rule on the board is that we do not comment or give appraisals on active auctions. I will only say that you might want to look at the other pieces this seller has for sale.

[watsonmil]

" Value " ... as in beauty lay in the eye of the beholder.

... Ron Watson

[sanjuro]

Price as in cost plus maximised profit margin lay in the eye of the seller. All to often on ebay, the former as in beauty, comes a poor second to the latter as in price.

[chuck]

The general rule on the board is that we do not comment or give appraisals on active auctions. I will only say that you might want to look at the other pieces this seller has for sale.

 

Whoops! Sorry!! I was only trying to improve my understanding. I didn't realize I was breaking any rules.

 

Many apologies.

 

I will wait for the auction to end before any further discussion

 

Thanks!

[Brian]

Actually, there is no such rule, sorry. If people choose not to discuss them of their own free will..fine with me. But we do allow it contrary to many expectations.

Just fyi.

 

Brian

[Ford Hallam]

The boss says it's ok so here's my pocket review.

 

This is (imnsho ) a piece of cast brass. It has evidently never been on a sword and I would hesitate to even call it a tsuba. I believe this to be a fairly recent production, the brass being worth about £3.50. It may, however, serve as a novelty coffee mug coaster. :D

[reinhard]

since I've started collecting and trying to understand tsuba and tsosogu, I've been looking at as many examples as I can find (even on eBay - I love it when I can spot a fake!). This looks to me like a real tsuba

 

It's not very often that you are spotting a fake, is it? Have another look.

 

reinhard

[Surfson]

I agree with Ford that there is no evidence that it has been mounted on a sword. However, to my eye it looks like iron that has been painted. The paint appears to be chipping off in one or two of the close up views.

[micko]

i'd stay well away from this guy his prices are way over the top

[Kevin]

Wouldn't touch it with somebody else's bargepole.

 

Kevin

[Ford Hallam]

It might be worth pointing out a couple more "clues" to those with eyes to see

 

Note the bit of gilding around the edge of the rim. This has a very sharp edge which makes it obvious that this isn't at all the remnants of gilding that's worn away. The patina on the brass directly alongside the gold is slightly grey. In my experience this is caused by the cyanide based solution that is used in electroplating gold. The area not to be gilded would have been masked out with varnish or some-such (I use black nail varnish...but I'm kinky ) but minute traces of the plating solution still seep under this resist and result in staining as seen here....if carried out by inexperienced operators.

 

If you look inside the sukashi you can actually still see traces of the mould material left over from the casting. It looks a bit like clay.

[chuck]

It might be worth pointing out a couple more "clues" to those with eyes to see

 

Note the bit of gilding around the edge of the rim. This has a very sharp edge which makes it obvious that this isn't at all the remnants of gilding that's worn away. The patina on the brass directly alongside the gold is slightly grey. In my experience this is caused by the cyanide based solution that is used in electroplating gold. The area not to be gilded would have been masked out with varnish or some-such (I use black nail varnish...but I'm kinky ) but minute traces of the plating solution still seep under this resist and result in staining as seen here....if carried out by inexperienced operators.

 

If you look inside the sukashi you can actually still see traces of the mould material left over from the casting. It looks a bit like clay.

 

Ah! I had mistaken that for grime from age... the whole "never clean inside the sukashi" thing. Grrrrr... I'm getting better at spotting the fakes but obviously I'm not 100% yet.

 

Apparently, I knew something wasn't right, but I was wrong about why.

 

I know this is probably going to ultimately sound silly, but I've also been haunting nihonto sites and the aoi-auction site, so I've seen a number of tsuba in the 1000-1500 price range. This tsuba didn't have the "look" or "feel" of the other tsuba I'd seen, so I was wondering if I was either misunderstanding something about the tsuba or if the seller was trying to pull something.

 

And now I know. Much thanks for all the info.

 

The more I learn, the more I realize there's more to learn.

[Kevin]

If you look at it carefully, the spokes are very unevenly shaped - the taper isn't uniform, the thickness isn't uniform and with some spokes some they taper out too rapidly, then come in a bit, thus making the line a bit wobbly. In addition, the spokes, in at least a couple of places, asymmetrically placed - compare one side with the other. It's all lopsided and uneven - and, in my opinion, an offence to the eyes. It's amateur.

 

Kevin