My Favorite

[max]

Hello all,

 

I just wanted to post this sword tonight for you guys to take a look at. It is my favorite of the bunch thus far. I have received a little bit of info/opinion on it from one of the members here but am anxious to hear anyone else's thoughts/comments/opinions. I'm not sure how collectable or sought after it is or is not considered, but, for whatever reason I just really like it and always have.

 

Thank you,

 

Max

 

 

http://img20.imageshack.us/g/dsc04539nf.jpg/

[Jean]

I would like to see the nakago Max.

 

Better pictures. Yokoyama Sukenaga . typical hamon. Second generation (from the Kanteisho). First one was rated Jo saku. 6O pts in the Hawley which lists 2 entry with almost the same dates

 

From Fujishiro:

 

SUKENAGA YOKOYAMA [TENPÔ 1830 BIZEN] SHINSHINTÔ JÔSAKU

He is the second son of Sukehira. His older brother became the adopted son of the Sukesada Ke, and it is said that he followed in the footsteps of his father Sukehira and of his own volition called himself the grandson of Tomonari in the 56th generation, and in addition to him there are many others which have inscribed "TOMONARI GOJÛROKUDAI MAGO" (Grandson of Tomonari in the 56th generation). He went to his eternal rest at the age of 57 on Kaei Yonen (1851) Rokugatsu Futsuka (6/2). His works have a jitetsu in the muji style, hamon is a nioi shimari ko-gonome choji ashi iri which is very clear.

Signatures: YOKOYAMA KAGA NO SUKE FUJIWARA SUKENAGA

BIZEN OSAFUNE SUKENAGA

BIZEN OSAFUNE JÛ YOKOYAMA KAGA NO SUKE FUJIWARA SUKENAGA

An "ICHI" is inscribed with the KIKU MON.

[max]

Jean,

 

As embarrassing as it is I am having trouble getting the shirasaya off of the nakago. I attempted to do it the traditional way and have been unsuccessful, and to be honest I am a little gun shy as I don’t want to harm it. This is why I simply photographed the old sketching. Do you have any tips suggestions for removing it without damaging anything. As soon as I get it off I will take many more photos.

 

Thanks,

 

Max

[Jean]

You'll have to use a wooden mallet to gether with a piece of wood to get it out

 

http://www.ksky.ne.jp./~sumie99/tools.html

[cabowen]

As you already know the maker and signature, there is little to be gained by removing it if it is stuck currently. You stand a great chance of doing damage without the correct tools.

 

If it is further information you seek, you have all you need to get started though I will tell you in advance there is very little additional info available on the net in English about the nidai Sukenaga as he was not nearly as well known as the first generation. About all you will find is his affiliation (Yokoyama Sukesada school), the period he worked, the location, his title, and his work style. All of which you have already. There is never much more available for smiths of lower rank in English (especially those that worked at the close of the Edo era), though sometimes one can find a bit more by researching Japanese sources.

 

As I recall I was first contacted by your uncle who told me his family had inherited a dozen or so "museum quality masterpieces" and wanted information on shinsa, telling me he thought it would be best to paper the swords before selling them through Christie's or the like. I told him I could perhaps save him a lot of time and hassle if he sent me some photos to verify if these swords were first of all worthy of shinsa and secondly, masterpieces...I was subsequently contacted by you. In the first of dozens of emails we have exchanged you expressed your desire to gather information about these swords so that you could be an informed seller.

 

I subsequently spent several hours sorting out all the mismatched photos and papers for you and provided you with rudimentary information on each sword. I told you that papers do indeed help in most cases to maximize a sword's sales price. I gave you all the necessary information about shinsa and offered to submit the swords without papers for you. I also offered, for a small fee, to do comprehensive appraisals on each sword as you repeated your desire to obtain accurate valuations. I explained in detail why accurate value determinations were not possible from pictures alone and that proper valuation takes experience, time and research. I also explained the pitfalls of posting pictures on the net in the hopes of obtaining the same.

 

At this point it I think it would be fair to all if you stated your intentions here. If you are gathering information to aid you in your attempts to market these swords, and/or fishing for valuations, please say so. If you spend any time looking at the archives here you will quickly learn that while people are generally generous to a fault with their knowledge, they do not appreciate being used.

 

If, on the other hand, you are a budding collector and are genuinely trying to enter into this esoteric hobby, then I suggest you follow the tried and true path suggested here already, which is the purchase of books. You are in a rather unusual situation in that you already have swords. Most people start with books and learn the fundamentals of vocabulary, history, schools, construction, etc. first. Your current attempts are akin to learning mathematics by starting with the calculus. One generally does not have a great deal of success understanding integral and differential calculus without first knowing basic arithmetic, followed by algebra, geometry, etc. You will save yourself and others here a great deal of time and effort if you buy the recommended books and get yourself up to speed. It will also go a long way in establishing some credibility as a bona fide collector.

[max]

Mr. Bowen,

 

Most of what you stated is accurate to a point. Yes my uncle did contact you, yes I did speak with you, and yes eventually many swords will be for sale. However, with that said I also believe I expressed to you without saying it directly that please don’t pay attention to what my uncle says as he for lack of better words may not be the best representative as he tends to be eccentric to say the least. As you are obviously aware by him making such a statement to you such as “museum quality masterpieces.” However, being that he is my uncle and an adult I cannot control who he speaks with or does. But I certainly do not appreciate you taking advantage of what he said to you and posting on here.

 

In addition to this I know that I also expressed my desire to learn more not only to sell some of the swords eventually as an “informed seller,” as I have no choice in doing so, but also because I have a genuine interest in them and always have. In addition to this I also expressed to you that I intended to send the swords that have not previously been evaluated to shinsa as I believe this would be a prudent step. In fact you told me this as well.

Now, Mr. Bowen, I certainly appreciate the fact that you did help me and I have not forgotten this fact. However, as I believe a prudent person should do, I took steps to verify just who you are. As I am sure most people would not blindly send anything that holds value to someone they only spoke with on the phone one time and exchanged a couple of emails with, or for that matter take that persons word for it, especially for a “small fee.” Further, I do believe I never actually stopped communicating with you all be it that you did just spend a month in Japan and have been for the most part unavailable during that time.

Now for stating my intentions. I have been very clear with my intentions and especially to this forum. In fact you were the one who showed this forum to me. After this I began to follow the posts here for weeks before I actually posted anything. In addition to this I even contacted the site administrator and sent him this email;

 

"Hello Brian,

I have become a member of your message board. I have to say I am really enjoying reading it every day. However I have a question. I am attempting to respect your rules but unclear how to proceed. I have multiple swords that I am attempting to asses what exactly they are, place a relative value to them, and eventually sell them. I understand how difficult a task this is as I have spoken with several collectors, some of which turned me onto your forum, and am attempting also to learn as I intend on continuing to collect myself. Unfortunately, I don't own the swords I have to sell and cannot afford to purchase them all. I would love to get the valuable insight on them your forum would provide but don't know if this is appropriate. If not can you suggest a couple of respected places I could sell them through. Please advise me on this situation. Thank you for your time on this matter."

 

And he responded;

 

"Max,

I have no problem with that, and members usually only take issue if they unaware of the commercial status of the items. In other words, if you post them and write exactly what you told me (ie..you are looking for info, but they will ultimately be for sale) then no-one will have any objections. When you do list them for sale, we just move the topic to the commercial section.

Try them maybe one at a time, in the appropriate section and let's see what happens?"

 

Additionally, if you would have “spent anytime looking at the archives here” you would have seen this was my very first post under “Den Osafune Tadamitsu Wakizashi, “ of which many of the members here responded to me on.

 

"Hello,

This is my first post and I will attempt to respect all the rules of this forum. First I would like comment that I am a new member here and inexperienced with swords but anxious to learn. I have been monitoring the forum now for a couple of weeks attempting to get a good grasp of the etiquette and learn as much as possible. During this time I have really enjoyed reading many of the opinions on the various swords and topics and learned much. I have always had an interest in them but unfortunately not much extra time to devote to them up until now. As of recently I have inherited several and have been tasked with research and eventual sale of several others that belong to another family member. Several of the swords that I have to sell I would love to keep and build my own collection but unfortunately will not be able to do this with them all. At this point I have spoken with several wonderful people, some of which are members of this forum that have provided me with valuable insight and knowledge into a couple of them. However, I would love to have a chance to eventually post all of them on this forum as well and see what everyone’s thoughts/comments are. After I have managed to identify all of them, including sending a few to Shinsa, I will eventually list several for sale. Any thoughts on the swords themselves, any suggestions on avenues to proceed, recommendations on people to follow up with, and generally any info would be appreciated. I have included a link to several pictures on the first sword I will post and I uploaded a copy of the original Shinsa worksheet.

Thank you,"

 

Now I apologize if I was supposed to place this declaimer on every post I make but I figured it would get rather redundant as most of the posts I have been following are by the same small group of members.

 

As for this posting. This sword is mine and as I stated my favorite. This sword I intend to keep and wanted to gain more information on it. You can believe me when I say that I wrote down every detail you told me about it, but, Mr. Jean as given me more which I appreciate and respect. Further, I know this sword peaked your curiosity as you wanted more pictures as well, if I remember correctly. For that reason I posted it thinking it would be an interesting conversation piece for the members here. Not to mention I really wanted a good tip in how to get the shirasaya off to take those pictures.

 

As for my further intentions. I am trying to soak up as much information as possible. I have also begun reading several books I also inherited and that you recommended to read. Unfortunately, my time is usually very limited and I can only get a chance to make some fast posts and hope to learn a few things. I have actually learned more from posting here and the members than what I have read in a book. Further, time is running out for me and I am struggling to make some decisions on these swords for my family that I don’t want to regret for the remainder of my life. Perhaps you have a taste of what I have to contend with as you posted part of your conversation here for all the world to see. Even though I may not know all the details about them and am not as savvy with swords yet as many are here, these swords, are very precious to me as they represent a lost family member and they were his pride and joy.

 

With that said I have never deviated from my stated intentions. In fact at some point most of the swords that are beyond my humble means to compensate my family for will have to be sold. In fact I was looking forward to possibly offering them to the members here and was considering using your services to do this as well and or your web site. Up until this point I was beginning to trust you as I have read many of your posts here and I have to say was very interested in what you had to say. In fact as you are aware I was supposed to call you this Sunday. Now I am not so sure you would like me to do that anymore or that it is appropriate as I would have to say I am slightly offended by your post.

 

Now, Please humor me in explaining why you would take the time to type such a post that I’m sure you knew would come across as offensive to me.

 

Thank you,

 

Max

 

And yes I am a “budding collector and genuinely trying to enter this esoteric hobby,” and as you put it so eloquently in a previous email, yes, I am “over my head,”.... for now.

[cabowen]

My apologies for offending you, as I assure you it was not my intention.

 

I have not read each of the posts you have made wherein you note you have made your plans clear, perhaps if I had taken the time to read each of them I would have seen that indeed you have been clear as to your intentions.

 

If you do follow this hobby long term you will come to understand why many experienced collectors may not always be so patient with newcomers asking for help. I can't tell you how many times I have received inquiries such as yours, spent countless hours trying to help while providing information few have access to gratis, only to have this help used for personal financial gain with rarely a thank you in return. This happens on this site routinely and it ruffles feathers. It appeared to me that your intentions were ambiguous and I felt it only fair to those taking the time to assist you that everyone understand where things stood. Thus I asked you to clarify. Obviously I could have done so in a less abrasive manner.

 

My offer to help still stands. Again, my apologies and best of luck to you regardless of how you choose to proceed.

[max]

Mr. Bowen,

 

I appreciate your apology. I’m sure we will be speaking soon.

 

Sincerely,

 

Max