How to mount a horse?

[Bugyotsuji]

How did fighting Bushi mount a horse in full armor/armour? Was there some kind of platform, or were they lifted up bodily by surrounding troops, I wonder? In Anime they might come running up and take the horse in one bound from behind... :D

 

Granted horses were of smaller stature, but if Japanese saddles were not strapped down as firmly as western saddles, would not the whole operation of mounting and riding a horse have been precarious at best?

 

(The reason for the question is partly personal. Next Sunday I have been asked to bring my full set of Katchu, with Tachi to boot, as some photos will be shot of us on horseback. How to get on without hurting myself or the horse???)

[watsonmil]

Hmmm,

Having seen your physical stature, .... let us pray that these are not the small asian horses of old ! . In all seriousness the Armour as worn by the Samurai should be quite flexible in the lower extremeties to allow for mounting a horse.

... Ron Watson

[Bugyotsuji]

Thanks for the as ever well-considered reply, Ron.

 

So, grasp the reins, left foot into the stirrup, and with a light spring in your right knee, swing up and over, carrying 100 kgs of body weight and another 30kg of armour... :|

[watsonmil]

Yep, .... it should work . Video tape if possible please !

... Ron Watson

[sanjuro]

Gee, I hope you get an understanding horse. Lets face it, you are going to look like a rather large crustacean and the horse may not wish to be ridden by a giant lobster. :D

 

Seriously, if you can keep a light pressure on the right rein as you mount. The horse will circle slowly toward you as you get on and help you handle that extra weight by moving in under you.

[watsonmil]

Or OVER you !

...Anonumous Ron Watson

[Bugyotsuji]

Come on guys, this is not about me.

 

It is about furthering the greater knowledge of humanity!

 

PS That tip about the right rein sounds useful, Sanjuro! :D

[estcrh]

  Bugyotsuji said:

How did fighting Bushi mount a horse in full armor/armour? Was there some kind of platform,

Piers, your loyal retainer will kneel down so that you can use his back as your platform, simple really. From modern picture I have seen of re-enactments of samurai on horse back the saddles seemed to be quite secure.

 

[John A Stuart]

Good question Piers. You must have met some equestrian re-enactors, they should know. A mounting platform in stable areas in the castle and as was said, a retainer/s in the field. I don't believe the western convention of mounting from the left may be how it was done in Asia, but, that is not important for piccies. Of course the young, more brawn than brain samurai would have shown prowess by mounting unaided probably with a flourish or two. The older, experienced warrior would have mounted with as much dignity as his station demanded. I would prefer the latter. John

[Bugyotsuji]

Hmmm... yes, Mike Jay of Katori Shinto Ryu would know, I expect. Good idea.

[sanjuro]

Just a thought Piers...

 

Have you ever seen the way a jockey mounts a thoroughbred race horse, with a shin boost provided by an attendant? Given that the stirrups on a samurai's horse are set fairly high, similar to a race horse's stirrups, this may be an option.

[Baka Gaijin]

Morning all,

 

Hi Piers, I have heard that its the right foot that goes in the right side abumi first.

 

 

See 2.30 onwards, this may help.

 

Edited to add :

 

http://www.asiabookroom.com/AsiaBookRoo ... ss/d/rtd/1

 

Cheers

 

Malcolm

[sanjuro]

Might I suggest that regardless of the traditional right side mounting, unless the horse that Piers will mount is trained to accept mounting from the right, he or she may be rather annoyed at the attempt. A western trained horse can become quite dismayed if you get this wrong..... Lets consider the horse here...... He or she is a great deal stronger and larger than the guy who is sitting up there trying to explain (in Japanese no less) to an indignant horse that mounting from the wrong side is in the interests of historical accuracy. :D

 

Many of the asian steppe type horses were trained to accept a rider from either side or even over the rump, even before the stirrup came into wide use. The reason for this being that a warrior dismounted on a battlefield needs to get up there very quickly regardless of which side of the horse he's on. One would imagine that the original smaller horses of the samurai were trained in a similar manner and for the same reason.

Others may correct me if I am wrong but I believe the mustangs of the plains indians in the US were also trained this way.

[IanB]

Piers, As you probably know, the traditional Japanese girth is tied either around the cantle of the saddle, or during the Edo period, on the right just below the saddle. I've watched yabusame riders climb on and then adjust the girth after settling in the saddle. To some extent this is because most still use old traditional saddle trees and these apparently have the space for the horse cut at rather too acute an angle for the backs of modern horses. I noted they used quite a few layers of thick padding under the saddles to compensate. Another point is to watch your own anatomy. Some armours have the front gessan laced in reverse specifically for riding. The idea being that should this gessan accidently get trapped between you and the saddle as you mount, the plates overlap the opposite way to normal and ensures they don't trap one's 'kin tama' between them. My eyes are now watering at the very thought.

Ian Bottomley

[John A Stuart]

Ian, 金的 as in family jewels. :lol: John

[intosight]

Hi Bugyotsuji,

 

Having considerably more experience with horses than this strange new world of Nihonto I suggest starting this whole enterprise at the front end of the horse. I assume whoever is setting this up will provide some pretty stolid animals, but even the calmest old trail horse can react pretty strongly to a heavily built dudette, clanking with cameras and sporting a flappping yellow sun hat. Spend some time up front, moving slowly and speaking lowly until the animal allows you to touch its face.

As for the actual mounting and moving about, don't worry about dignity. Mount from a platform if available, with help if not, and personally I would not be insulted to have an attendent constantly in control of the horse's head.

It is just a photo op afterall, and not worth wounding yourself, your gear or the animal.

Take a hint from the knights of old, and tell them you require a page.

 

Best of luck,

 

David P

[Bugyotsuji]

This thread has cheered me up immensely. Many thanks for your surprising revelations of further hidden talent, knowledge, humor/humour and understanding of horses' feelings! Definitely better prepared now.

[Mark Green]

What Dave said.!!!

 

The people setting this up should have handlers. Ask, if the horse is accustomed to the weight, and the armor.

 

Let someone hand your weapons up to you once you are settled.

 

Always have an exit strategy in mind.

 

Have fun! Take many heads.

 

Mark G

[Jamie]

Interesting

 

post the pics afterwards!

[Bugyotsuji]

Well, this seems to have generated some interest and amusement here, so to fill you all in, the day went ahead roughly as planned. With an 8:10 am start and a heavily-laden van we picked up various members and headed for the hills. Stopping at a large hospital we met the rest of the convoy and the chief doctor who led the way through winding trails to the little parcel of land up in the morning mists, the 'Forest Horse Club'.

 

Three of our members and the owner of the stables were to dress as Ashigaru and stand with the horse and rider. Three of us were to help these doctors and professional types put on some quite fancy examples of armor/armour. Early on I began to sense that my turn would never come, so it was easy to let go and focus on helping people. As the main dignitaries finished their turns, the poor old horse looking more and more exhausted with all this posing and camera work, it became apparent that they really did want us to join in too. So we three did a lightning job of preparing for battle and finally made the cut.

 

There was a professional photographer there. Managed to sneak some private shots myself but the computer is dying. Will attempt an upload in a minute...

(Edit. The pics are slightly too large, plus ImageShack is playing up. Giving up for now.)

[Lorenzo]

Piers I was worried about you (and the horse) and I missed this post... thanks for the report.

 

:D

[Bugyotsuji]

Thanks for the thoughts, 'Renzo! Well, here goes. This is an experiment... one photo at a time.

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Experiment 2. One size larger.

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Experiment 3. One ImageShack size larger again.

[Lorenzo]

Both works

 

[sanjuro]

So that's what a corporate executive samurai looks like............. Cant make up my mind who looks more ill at ease, the samurai or the horse. Pics are good though.

 

Nice horse Piers. Did you give him an apple? Horse bribery is an equine expectation. Its like tipping a waiter or a bus boy.

[Bugyotsuji]

And from the pot, the shot you have all been waiting for....

 

WAIT FOR IT!!! (Maybe he didn't like the apple?)

 

[sanjuro]

Possibly the tanegashima cannon in your hand had him a little worried.

[Bugyotsuji]

What, this?

 

[Lorenzo]

Now that I see his face I get what you mean Piers.. Maybe to blow into that thing was the culprit

 

You look good but the horse face really kills the drama :lol:

 

[edit]