Tang. Your opinion ?

[papasha1]

1939

Kōa Issiin Mantetsu............ Kore o Tsukuru

[k morita]

Hi,

 

I know this blade is not a fake.

This blade is made by Wakabayashi(family name) Shigetsugu who has taught operatives the production of Koa-Isshin swords in Dalian.

I think that it is an unusual sword that he made in Dalian.

He returned to Japan from Dalian in 1941.

Please show me the blade photos. :D

[Kiipu]

Please show me the blade photos.

 

The blade pictures can be found at the link below.

Мелкооптовая покупка японцев

http://guns.allzip.org/topic/188/774791.html

 

Direct link to the photographs for those that do not want to scroll down the page.

Post #25

http://guns.allzip.org/topic/188/774791.html#p25

[BANGBANGSAN]

滿鐵 若林重次 Wakabayashi  Shigetsugu 作之  

[Brian]

And only 8 years later

[Bruce Pennington]

I cannot recognize the last kanji on the date, which is normally a season.  Any ideas @k morita, @Kiipu, or @BANGBANGSAN?

[BANGBANGSAN]

45 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

I cannot recognize the last kanji on the date, which is normally a season.  Any ideas @k morita, @Kiipu, or @BANGBANGSAN?

昭和己卯年（Showa 14)，1939.No season on this one.

[Kiipu]

Cross-reference to the same sword.

Help with Shigetsugu Mei, Please!

[Bruce Pennington]

8 hours ago, BANGBANGSAN said:

年

Ah!  It's the "year" kanji.  I thought so, but I'm not used to seeing that on a Mantetsu.  But there's not much "normal" about this nakago anyway!

[Kiipu]

With the help of @wiktor69, the owner was contacted and he still owns the sword.  Videos were provided of the top edge of the tang (nakago mune) and there are no visible markings to be seen.

 

With the translation assistance of @SteveM and @BANGBANGSAN, the following summary can be provided of the nakago markings.

Nakago mune:  No markings.

Obverse:  昭和己卯年 = Shōwa Tsuchinoto-U-nen = 1939.

Reverse:  興亜一心　満鉄若林重次作之 = Kōa Isshin　Mantetsu Wakabayashi Shigetsugu saku kore.

[Kiipu]

Cross-References

Start at the link below and read the next 10 posts or so.

Attention Mantetsu Owners: A Survey

 

This is the Chinese article quoted by Trystan on several occasions.

日本军国扩张罪证：“满铁”军刀

 

And finally, a Japanese language book entitled 軍刀組合始末: 陸軍受命刀匠の周辺 also discusses swordsmith Shigetsugu.

Rikugun Jumei Tosho (RJT) Star Stamped Blades - Documentation?, Post #45

Quote

There is also the story of Shigetsugu Wakabayashi, a smith that moved his family to Manchuria in 1937 and succeeded in developing the Koa-Isshin Mantetsu Sword with Prof. Kusaka. He returned to Japan in 1941 and became a RJT.

 

The End!

Edited February 1, 2022 by Kiipu

[BANGBANGSAN]

1 hour ago, Kiipu said:

With the help of @wiktor69, the owner was contacted and he still owns the sword.  Videos were provided of the top edge of the tang (nakago mune) and there are no visible markings to be seen.

 

With the translation assistance of @SteveM and @BANGBANGSAN, the following summary can be provided of the nakago markings.

Nakago mune:  No markings.

Obverse:  昭和己卯年 = Shōwa Tsuchinoto-U-nen = 1939.

Reverse:  興亜一心　満鉄若林重次作之 = Kōa Isshin　Mantetsu Wakabayashi Shigetsugu saku kore.

The Japanese 銃炮刀劍類登錄證 says 若林重高 for the other one just like it，I’m not sure that Kanji is 高 or 次 now。。。I found a sword signed by 若林重次，it looks different than the signature on the Mantetsu.

 

[BANGBANGSAN]

@Kiipu

Thomas

After more digging ,it should be 若林重房 Shigefusa

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Back in 2011, K. Morita-san said it was Shigetsugu:
 

[Kiipu]

Bruce & Trystan, when time permits, take a look at this 2008 thread.  Maybe @k morita will swing by and take a second look, and let us know what is going on.

almost there

 

The sword dated as 端午日 can be seen below.

商品 No. KA-0392

[Bruce Pennington]

My google translate of that second page calls him "Shigeije" so bad translation, but they say he's the Mantetsu guy ...... which would be Shigetsugu?!

"Shigeji Aizu Sumi Wakabayashi is an Army swordsmith. According to Akira Tsutsumi's "Guntō Union Disposition" (subtitle, Around the Army Ordered Swordsmith, published by the Aizu Cultural Research Study Group in 1994), Shigeji Wakabayashi (real name Inoyoshi Wakabayashi), who was a swordsmith in Aizu, Fukushima Prefecture, is a mantetsu. It seems that he was involved in the production of swords from the early days, and it is written that he returned to Aizu in the spring of 1941 and then produced swords as an army swordsmith. Although there are only two flaws in this work, it is an excellent work with a dignified appearance by Shigeji Aizu Sumi Wakabayashi, who was involved in the Mantetsu sword (Koa Isshin sword) and was a swordsmith of the Army. Passed the preservation in the examination in September 2021."

Need some Sherlock Holmes work @mecox

[BANGBANGSAN]

@Kiipu @Bruce Pennington  若林重次 is the Mantestu swordsmith,he used 重房 name since his 6th Generation 重房。若林升 ，the 5th Generation 重房 若林大八‘s son,is 7th Generation 重房。

Here is root of 重房，and 7th Generation 重房 若林生’s Signature when he was 21 years old.

1st Generation 重房 若林安右衛門

2nd Generation 重房 若林猪之吉，安右衛門‘s second son.He and his older brother 若林安左衛門 both are using 重房 name.

3rd Generation 重房 若林大助，若林猪之吉‘s son。

4th Generation 重房 守藏 ，若林大助’s student and son in-law.

5th Generation 重房 若林大八，若林大助‘s son.

6th Generation 重房 重次，守藏’s son。

7th Generation 重房 若林升，若林大八‘s son，重次’s nephew.

 

[Bruce Pennington]

So are we saying that Shigetsugu also signed Shigefusa?

[BANGBANGSAN]

5 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

So are we saying that Shigetsugu also signed Shigefusa?

NO, not the same person,Shigetsugu 繁继 not Shigefusa 重房 。I’m saying 若林重次（the smithe work for Mantetsu) is 6th Generation 重房.

[Bruce Pennington]

So, we're thinking the guy we've been calling "Shigetsugu" should be "Shigefusa?"  I tried backtracking my source of SMR smiths we used in the Mantetsu article and the only source for "Shigetsugu" working for SMR was @k morita's post.  Do we have any other source showing a smith named Shigetsugu worked there?  If not, then it's starting to look like Shigefusa was the guy.  I checked Sesko's smith reference.  He shows 2 Showa era Shigefusa and didn't mention the SMR work at all.

 

@george trotter @mecox - any chance of finding a source on who it was that helped SMR start their sword work, Shigetsugu or Shigefusa?

[BANGBANGSAN]

@Bruce

There are 3 Smith associates to Mantetsu mentioned by Ohmura
1.栗原昭秀 kurihara Akihide

表1から、軍刀製作を思い立った昭和12年9月からほどなくして、大連鉄道工場での栗原彦三郎昭秀による焼入れをした時点（昭和12年10月）での記述にもある様に、大連鉄道工場内の刀剣製作所は準備で大わらわだったとあるから、まだ刀剣製作はごく少数が試験的に造られていたのであろう。

http://ohmura-study.net/222.html

 

2.竹島久勝  Akeshima Hisakatsu

大野正編『現代刀工・金工・職方総覧』（昭和52発行）の116Ｐに山口県の刀工・竹島久勝氏の経歴として興味深い記述がある
  ので一部引用する。
  「十三年南満州鉄道株式会社刀剣製作所に赴任、終戦まで興亜一心刀の鍛造指導に当たる」とある。十三年とはもちろん昭和十
  三年のことである。同書では久勝は本名とあるが、大野正著『現代刀工名鑑』（昭和46年発行）の149Ｐでは本名は竹島政雄氏
  とあった。堀井俊秀門下であり、昭和九年に自らの鍛刀場を山口県田布施町内に開設した。
  氏は昭和33年から郷里で作刀を再開した。水竜斎とも号した。

http://ohmura-study.net/221.html

 

3.若林重次 Wakabayashi Shigetsugu 

堤 章 著『軍刀組合始末』（副題、陸軍受命刀匠の周辺／平成6年刊 会津文化調査研究会発行）の106-107Ｐによれば、福島県
  会津の刀工だった若林重次こと本名:若林猪之吉氏は、満鉄刀の初期頃から、製作に係わっていたらしく、昭和16年の春に会津
  に戻りその後は陸軍受命刀匠として刀剣を製作した。

http://ohmura-study.net/221.html

NOTE：若林重次 Wakabayashi Shigetsugu was student of 笠間繁繼 Kasama Shigetsugu,the Yasukuni smith known as 靖繁 Yasushige。

The pronunciation for both 重次 and 繁继 are the same Shigetsugu, so better write Kanji instead of only English pronunciation to avoid the confusion.

Here is the story of 若林重次 that I replied to on this thread.

 

 

[george trotter]

Hi Bruce,

looks like Trystan has this covered...

[Bruce Pennington]

Forgive my denseness here - So, We are saying that the mei, and smith, of the guy that helped SMR was Shigefusa, and it was simply a wrong translation early on to have called him Shigetsugu?

[Stephen]

2011? Not catching me this Time!

[BANGBANGSAN]

1 hour ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Forgive my denseness here - So, We are saying that the mei, and smith, of the guy that helped SMR was Shigefusa, and it was simply a wrong translation early on to have called him Shigetsugu?

若林重次(Real name) Wakabayashi Shigetsugu is 若林重房(Smith name) Wakabayashi Shigetsugu，the guy worked for SMR, and he's the guy on the 聖代刀匠位列。

https://www.tsuruginoya.com/infomation/data/iretsu-seidai

Not the wrong  translation,just didn't know 重次 and 重房 is the same guy.

Also, could be confused 重次 and 繁继 by only using English instead of Kanji, because they are the same pronunciation.

PS:the registration paper from Japan was wrong about the signature on that Mantestu sword, it should be 若林重次 instead of若林重高。 Whoever work for the education department and register that sword could have not many knowledge about swordsmith，and the cursive script is kind of hard to get it right.

 

[Mark]

excuse me for interjecting something........  but is did not know

NOTE：若林重次 Wakabayashi Shigetsugu was student of 笠間繁繼 Kasama Shigetsugu,the Yasukuni smith known as 靖繁 Yasushige。

 

So you are saying Kasama Shigetsugu was Yasukuni smith Ysaushige??????  That is new to me, are we sure this is correct?

[BANGBANGSAN]

18 minutes ago, Mark said:

excuse me for interjecting something........  but is did not know

NOTE：若林重次 Wakabayashi Shigetsugu was student of 笠間繁繼 Kasama Shigetsugu,the Yasukuni smith known as 靖繁 Yasushige。

 

So you are saying Kasama Shigetsugu was Yasukuni smith Ysaushige??????  That is new to me, are we sure this is correct?

My bad,I was wrong ,笠间一貫斎繁継 Shigetsugu is NOT Yasukuni smith 靖繁Ysaushige(阿部繁雄).繁継 is 宫口靖廣 Miyaguchi Yasuhiro’s uncle.

Mark，Thanks for correcting me, and stop the wrong information right here. 

[Bruce Pennington]

Ok, I'm tracking now.  So, no need to change the page in the SMR Mantetsu article that states Shigetsugu was one of the smiths that helped them get started making swords.

 

Thanks for working through that with me Trystan.  I can see why working these names with kanji rather than English is safer.  Yet, even as I say that, I can recall several smith names being used by multiple smiths that even use the same 2 kanji!  But that's another rabbit to chase another day.

[Kiipu]

I think there could be more to the story.  The real name of 重次 Shigetsugu is 若林･猪之吉 Wakabayashi Inokichi.  This is coming from several sources, of which the primary source seems to be http://aizu.sub.jp/kaji/2kaji_pro.html [軍刀組合始末].  However, I am uncertain what the reading of the second character is on the Mantetsu sword pictured in the OP.  I have seen it translated three different ways so far, either as 重房 Shigefusa, 重高 Shigetaka, or 重次 Shigetsugu.

[Kiipu]

On 2/1/2022 at 4:41 PM, BANGBANGSAN said:

After more digging, it should be 若林重房 Shigefusa.

 

I decided to take a closer look at the picture you posted above and see if anything further could be learned from it.  So that others can follow along, the picture is coming from page 157 of Slough's book entitled An Oshigata Book of Modern Japanese Swordsmiths, 1868–1945.  Upon translating the characters, I learned that 撫順炭礦製鉄工場 (Bujun tankō seitetsu kōjō) was located in Bujun (Chinese: 抚顺, 撫順, Fushun), Manshūkoku 滿洲國.  This would indicate that the sword was made by our very own Shigetsugu who worked at Mantetsu!

Fushun 抚顺