Wood for Tsuka/Saya

[Strider]

I was wondering if the magnolia wood from a tree in the U.S. wood be suitable for nihonto restoration? If so, what would be the best way to cut the blanks? I would think quarter sawn would give you the most stability, but slab sawn would yield the most wood, Any thoughts? Scott E.

[roninjje]

I have actually heard poplar is very similar to ho wood.

[Guest Simon Rowson]

Be very careful when using any wood other than hinoki (ho) sourced from a Japanese supplier.

 

Ho is chosen, not just for ease of carving and finish, but because, after seasoning for several years, it is virtually devoid of any sap or resin which may cause corrosion to the blade.

 

The worst substitute I ever saw being used (in the UK) was pine!

 

Simon

[roninjje]

I have to agree, you want a wood that has a neutral ph and has been kiln dried for some time - should not be green at all.

[John A Stuart]

Hi Scott, Why use magnolia when we have access to some really beautiful wood. Like oak, walnut, cherry, pear, boxwood etc. I would see if they have a bad effect on metals but silver is found in some really nice boxes. If I had a high quality/priced tsuba or some such would it not look great in a nice black walnut box? If it turned out that these type of boxes would be safe to store fittings I would buy some. Just a thought. John

[Brian]

John,

 

I think Scott was probably thinking in terms of tsuka and saya here. For display boxes there might be other options as long as they are lined, but for saya you would have to go with something that has no doubts.

Keith Larman or Ted Tenold would be the guys to answer this. They are on the forum, but I guess we'll have to wait for them to appear

 

Fable or not..I did once hear of someone who used poplar or magnolia that was from a coastal humid climate in the USA. The wood seemed perfect, but a while later, the effects of the climate appeared in the form of rust. The wood had been growing in a salty coastal climate, and salt was throughout the wood. Can't verify that tale..but it does show that caution is in order.

Namikawa (links page) sells Ho wood at fair prices, and even if they show sold out on their page, and email will usually turn up some for sale.

 

Regards,

Brian

[John A Stuart]

Darn, A brain malfunction. I was hoping for some nice show boxes. John

[Ted Tenold]

Hi All,

 

Just settled in for a nice cup of coffee on a relaxing Sunday morning.

 

The compatible wood subject pops up on occasion. One of the things most folks overlook or don't realize is that Honoki (Magnonila Obivata, or Magnolia Hypoleuca) has a natural wax in it's structure. Using a bit of sandpaper on a piece of Honoki almost immediately clogs the paper. This makes the wood very ammenable for protecting the sword from humidity as well as a very good base for lacquerwork. The quality of the wood also depends on the particular region of Japan it was harvested because this dictates density and color as well. Some Honoki looks very white while others have a green cast to them. Many might be familiar with the very attractive golden brown "tiger stripes" that some Honoki can have which have a very opalescent shimmer to them when finished correctly by the sayashi. One will see these most generally on excellent shirasaya with qualitative blades. Obviously the lesser quality ones are used for lacquerwork (or the liners of steel/aluminum gunto saya) as the grain won't be visable anyway. As was mentioned above, Honoki is cured for many years to provide stability and remove excess moisture from the structure. The stability issue is obviously another important consideration for accurate fitting of the blade. If it warps the blade will rub or not fit at all. Kiln dried woods can be more suceptable to this, depending on how fresh from the kiln they are.

 

There are many considerations for using wood for direct contact with the sword blade of which many harder structured woods just aren't suitable. Woods like Maple, Walnut, Cherry and other very durable woods are difficult to carve and because of their dense structure are very rough on the finish of the sword, and they are often very irregular in grain. Oak is straighter, but is also very hard and has an open grain structure that traps crud. Any woods like this are likely to abrade the polish and also be very noisey on the draw. Carving them accurately is difficult so rattling is easy to introduce. Exotics woods can have natural chemistry that protects them from environmental threats such as pests that make them highly corrosive to steel, so yet another issue to watch out for. I have seen period examples of swords using exotic woods on saya for their beauty. One example was a Shikkake Norinaga tanto with a lovely wood (supposedly now extinct) from the area of Vietnam that looks like a cross between ironwood and rosewood. However it was an "irekozaya" which incorporates a removeable sleeve of Honoki to protect the blade from contact of the extremely hard wood. When pulled out it was hinged to easily split apart for cleaning, and a poem was written upon the outside of the sleeve. I've also seen the same thing done with saya of extremely high quality lacquerwork that allows the saya to be cleaned easily to preserve the lacquer work which would otherwise be destroyed or discarded when the saya interior became too dirty to use.

 

Honoki of any quality is getting harder to obtain and for a lot of swords including swords for practitioners, contemporary works, and lower quality antique swords using good stock is a bit of a waste of the materials. In these cases, Alder is about the best comparable stock we have here in the US for sword mountings I have found. It is closegrained, fairly dense, strong, and carvable. Eventhough it's all pretty much kiln dried, it's generally stable enough off the rack as well. Clear stock is getting harder to find though as with all decent woods. Basswood works, but it is very very soft and absorbs a ton of oil, so over oiling could exacerbate interior swelling/pinching of the sword blade. I'd vote against that one. It also is very soft, and will dent practically looking at it. Poplar (or American Tulipwood) is decent strenght, good for carving, and lower in shrikage than Alder or Basswood. It's color is also widely varied in whites, yellow, green, and brown, and has black spots, green areas, so for exposed wood it wouldn't look nice, but lacquered over no problem. It is light though and will dent easier than Alder, but not as easily as Bass.

 

In the US, Yellow Cucumber Tree (Magnolia Acuminata) might be one to look at, though I've never personally used it. It has properties better than Alder in most catagories and is fairly plentiful on the east coast. It is close to all specs between Alder, Poplar (Tulipwood), and although I don't have written specs on Honoki, likely is very similar there by default of species.

 

Hope this helps.

[Deron Douglas]

Hi Scott, Why use magnolia when we have access to some really beautiful wood. Like oak, walnut, cherry, pear, boxwood etc. I would see if they have a bad effect on metals but silver is found in some really nice boxes. If I had a high quality/priced tsuba or some such would it not look great in a nice black walnut box? If it turned out that these type of boxes would be safe to store fittings I would buy some. Just a thought. John

 

I like your "icon/avatar" to the left John :-)

 

Deron

[Deron Douglas]

John,

 

I think Scott was probably thinking in terms of tsuka and saya here. For display boxes there might be other options as long as they are lined, but for saya you would have to go with something that has no doubts.

Keith Larman or Ted Tenold would be the guys to answer this. They are on the forum, but I guess we'll have to wait for them to appear

 

Fable or not..I did once hear of someone who used poplar or magnolia that was from a coastal humid climate in the USA. The wood seemed perfect, but a while later, the effects of the climate appeared in the form of rust. The wood had been growing in a salty coastal climate, and salt was throughout the wood. Can't verify that tale..but it does show that caution is in order.

Namikawa (links page) sells Ho wood at fair prices, and even if they show sold out on their page, and email will usually turn up some for sale.

 

Regards,

Brian

 

I've purchased from them several times. They are very helpful. The cost of good quality (they offer different qualities) katana sized wood is about $20.00. Shipping is about the same to North America. I only use this type of wood for my saya(s) and tsuka(s).

 

Deron