Star Stamped Sword Gassan Sadakatsu Rikugun Jumei Tosho

[Ed Hicks]

Star Stamped Sword Gassan Sadakatsu Rikugun Jumei Tosho if I have researched this correctly...there is a Star stamp above the mei and a tiny "1" on the nakago spine...Images are of the nakago and I will provide better shots of the blade which is not in polish (sticky fingers once abused the blade). Ed

[Ed Hicks]

more

[kusunokimasahige]

Here is a sword by Gassan Sadakatsu from 1933:

 

 

 

 

Whether it is the same person i dont know.

 

Images courtesy of http://www.japanesesword.com :

 

http://www.japanesesword.com/Images/Swo ... akatsu.htm

 

KM

[Mark]

i understand the yasuri on main line Gassan blades are unique

[Ed Hicks]

Better photos to follow. Ed

[gab72]

Hi,

Uhhmm the mei look poorly ceselled.

The balde is out of polish but maybe can you see the tipical Ayasugi Hada pattern

of Gassan Sadakatsu on the blade ?

[drbvac]

Gee Ed:

 

IMHO this is not "the" Gassan Sadakatsu, neither the mei or the blade look as I would expect them to but -

[Ed Hicks]

Beats me...If gimei the maker had pushed it through the military accceptance process which I would think would be unusual, but perhaps not...If not gimei, then what? Sword maker with the same name? Student? Quality of the blade is exceptional for a gendaito (in my opinion), but the polish (and my photos) aren't the best...Ed

[gab72]

Can you take and post best close up pics of the hada in a clear area ?

[kaigunair]

I thought I'd update this thread and provide some additional information:

 

I picked this one up from ed. I am no expert, but the pics of the signature here were not the best when compared in hand. There are a bunch of other sadakatsu signatures floating in the 'net for blades dated closer to 1943, and on more "regular" blades. The mei's posted here are definitely for much fancier and nicer blades (and much more expensive). I was concerned about the lack of a "kin" in the "kin-saku" since I usually see these on his blades, at least the ones that goggle pops up with.

 

I'm a novice, but I would assume that more experience members might have been tipped off from the pics that there was pressure on the mei from the tsuka, which would have worn down certain characters. Perhaps not, because this was probably due to the fact that in these particular gunto mountings (type 44's) there are threaded metal screws and a built in "nut" instead of bamboo pegs for the mekugi. The lower tsuka is actually cracked all the way around near the mekugi-ana, most likely due to a way over tightening of the screw down there. I could not see any ayasugi hada, but this blade was always represented as being a normal work of sadakatsu (I read somewhere may be only 25% of his blades are done in that style). I recently got the afu watson set, and tried to use the gimie section. It was alittle helpful, and did make me notice the wear done by the tsuka more. I was most concerned about the strokes in the katsu kanji myself.

 

Again, I'm by far a novice, but these were my initial observations. Thankfully I live near a togishi who has handled more than a handful of gassans, and was gracious enough to take a look at the blade. He felt it was good, and would polish well. He pointed out that the initial mekugi ana was probably done at the time of the mei, while the second lower one was much rougher and added later, with a different tool. Looking at the various signatures online, the placement of the first mei I would think is a kantei point for gassan. I am curious as to whether these were first mounted in the normal (type 92?) mounts and later remounted in these type 44's. The 1943 dating of the blade is still consistent with 44 (i.e. style 1944) mounts per gregory and fuller.

 

He also pointed out that it was ubu-ba, which was a new term for me - polished only once as indicated by the unsharpened area of the blade near the habaki. It was something I noticed on one of my yasukunito's recently, but didn't understand the significance. The polish was rough, but he felt it was a bizen (maybe he said ko-bizen?) copy. Another interesting point he mentioned was that the military often polished the blades to a high shine after buying them (as indicated by the star stamp), and this would "flatten" the grain. He said there was still a chance there may be ayasugi grain underneath. He had polished blades where only a small part of the blade had ayasugi grain - as a sort of gassan signature.

 

So, overall, it appears to be a genuine gassan sadakatsu. I enjoy the fact that it is star stamped and that is actually a plus to me, as my collecting interests tie to the ww2 era and history. This is also my first gendaito in type 44 mounts- in books and pictures I always thought they looked pretty boring, like something on a chinese copy. Holding the mounts in hand, I found them very "austere", and there's something about the color and texture on the saya. I actually think I may like them better than the normal mounts, as I feel they are more "bushi" if that is a word. I never expected this to be an exceptional blade, but I would not adverse to such a surprise after a costly polish. Such blades are beyond my piggy bank anyway.

 

I hope this additional information is useful on the forum.

[drbvac]

I hope you are correct for your sake and if you decide to get it polished would love to see it after and what the polisher feels as far as maker etc.

[cabowen]

I tend to believe this is genuine. I sure hope you use a professional, fully trained polisher.....

[kaigunair]

I tend to believe this is genuine. I sure hope you use a professional, fully trained polisher.....

 

That would be a given...I also found someone to hang out with at the show in august.

[george trotter]

I am inclined to agree that all the pointers are that this is a sword by Gassan Sadakatsu. The blade is more "gunto" in shape than his private work, and what I can see of the hamon looks "different" from his usual work, but that is probably because this is a gunto intended sword made to the army's specifications rather than Gassan's tradition. I am inclined to say that, not being able to see the blade details very well, I am pretty sure the other clues on the nakago and the fittings support this being genuine.

 

1. One of the resident Rikugun Jumei Tosho at Osaka army workshops was Gassan Sadakatsu...the swords made there had to be marked with a star when passed inspection and they also had the "Saka" stamp for the workshop. Yours has both and the date 6/1943, so this is all correct. (I don't think anyone would fake such a blade during the war-time as they would risk the wrath of the Army and the Workshops).

 

2. I don't agree that the second ana was added later...the date and "two ana" fittings started in 1943, so this is correct too...some pics dated 1941 and 1942 show this pattern of Type 3 mounts, (maybe prototypes?), so the fittings are well in use by mid/late 1943.

 

3. I wouldn't be overly concerned about not finding ayasugi hada and the "exact" mei/kao and/or kanji use. My experience with RJT tosho who worked before and after the RJT period (especially after the war) is that their nakago shape/jiri and yasuri and even hamon can be different from RJT period (or should I say that their RJT work is noticeably different from their "usual" work). Maybe Chris can verify this but I tend to think that some of the more established tosho who had their "style", occasionally deliberately varied these details to show that the RJT blades were "different" production fom their custom ordered private production.

 

I think you need to study more before you make a decision, but the sword looks promising.

regards,

Geo.

[kaigunair]

2. I don't agree that the second ana was added later...the date and "two ana" fittings started in 1943, so this is correct too...some pics dated 1941 and 1942 show this pattern of Type 3 mounts, (maybe prototypes?), so the fittings are well in use by mid/late 1943.

 

Thanks much George. Your post was exactly what I love reading on this forum. Such posts really help the newer collectors like myself.

 

Regarding the second lower ana, the togishi's observation was that it was not added at the same time as the top ana. He felt the top ana was much better drilled and finished, while a different tool was used to make the second. He also felt the placement and finish of the lower one was more crude. I would agree that most likely these mounts were the only ones ever used on for blade. But I'm thinking that only one mekugi ana was put on at the time this blade was forged, and that the second one was added when this style of mounts needing 2 ana's was selected for this particular blade.

 

It is possible that since the tsuka cracked at the lower, there was some movement that has deformed the lower mekugi ana which is why the togishi noticed the difference. But the placement is alittle "unbalanced" compared to upper one, yes?

 

I have the "gassan tradition" book but it is light on sadakatsu and sadakazu blades (an example I'd also like to have someday). I'd love to know if there is a book on solely blades and oshigata of these two smiths, even if its in Japanese.

 

I was more surprised at how quickly it was judged to be gimie. Esp when I saw which mei/oshigata were being used as a comparison. Perhaps I benefitted indirectly from this, as Ed's price was very resonable for a gassan, and a RJT one at that. Gendaito values have been all over the place lately. Factoring in the cost of the polishing as quoted to me this past week, it will still be a large chunk of change, but in all likelihood, I would not have been able to become a caretake of such a blade as this if it was already in full polish.

[Stephen]

I was more surprised at how quickly it was judged to be gimie

 

I learned to always look at each mei as Gimei, then when found out it was not it was a good surprise

[george trotter]

I'm thinking that only one mekugi ana was put on at the time this blade was forged, and that the second one was added when this style of mounts needing 2 ana's was selected for this particular blade.

 

 

This is quite possible, maybe they were deciding on which mounts to use and settled on Type 3 and drilled another hole, slightly different from the first.

The hole is not unusually awkward or misplaced IMHO...this is quite normal on Type 3 mounts (I have one with the second hole half missing the nakago-jiri...looks awful) and to my eye your second hole seems appropriate to the hilt shape/length you show.

What you say about the cracked hilt and disfigured ana may be right also...just do your utmost to repair and maintain the original tsuka...unless it is so bad it needs a new one...hope not.

Thanks for your kind words about us gendaito lovers' efforts...we all try to help.

Let us know if you find out any additional info (good or bad)...RJT finds like this are not that common and we're all interested.

 

As for books on Gassan, there are a few I think...I only have the glossy pamphlet/booklet type they put out themselves...you'll just have to google, or hopefully someone here will help with titles.

 

As for the gimei call, it is understandable as there are differences with his regular work...I think there are differences that could cause doubt, but it is correct enough to be correct, based on "differences" in RJT tosho work when compared to their "private" work, I say this because because I have seen it a number of times...it is always possible that this is suspect, but I think in the major things it lines up with features I have seen for "private" Sadakatsu ...you have to find another the same or an oshigata the same to be more positive...so get cracking....

Regards,

George.

[kaigunair]

What you say about the cracked hilt and disfigured ana may be right also...just do your utmost to repair and maintain the original tsuka...unless it is so bad it needs a new one...hope not.

 

...you have to find another the same or an oshigata the same to be more positive...so get cracking....

Regards,

George.

 

We discussed having a wooden filler blade (I disremember the correct term right now) made for the original mounts, as I definitely want to keep those with this blade.

 

Any suggestions for a very strong wood glue? As it is crack that possibly goes all the way around, I thinks it important to glue the tsuka wood so the lacquered itoh chord doesn't get damaged. The crack is also obscured by the itoh for now. I don't think elmers or normal wood glue is strong enough, but not sure the effect of gorilla glue or superglue on wood. (yes, I know NOT to do this with the blade in it!). I don't think I have the skill or ability to drill holes and add pegs lengthwise, plus I wouldn't want to remove the current itoh which, unfortunately, would probably be the best way to repair this cracked tsuka.

 

The same is also cracked, but again, the placement of the itoh chord helps to obscure this. Is there a recommend glue for sealing up same cracks?

 

Right now the gassan is resting upright on a tachi stand, looking quite elegant I might add. So there's no rush. I am alittle concerned that when it goes to polish, someone might forget that the tsuka is damaged along one of the step, and make things worse....

[george trotter]

Hi Junichi,

good idea to get a tsunagi made to hold the fittings together. Once polished, there should be no need to put the blade back into the original mounts, but nice to keep them together IMHO.

I don't know the glues you mention as I live elsewhere, but it is a "hands-on" project, so you need to talk to people at the shinsa and get their advice as they examine "in-hand" just what is needed on the tsuka. I wouldn't think it has to be as strong as new as it isn't a use type mount any more but if it is no harder to do so, do so. I think there are a number of koshirae repairers/restorers linked to this board...they can help with their advice....also, if not repaired by the time you send it for polish, include CLEAR instruction to your polisher about the tsuka.

Good luck in your research and restorations. Lots of fun.

Geo.

[george trotter]

...you have to find another the same or an oshigata the same to be more positive...so get cracking....

 

Well, as luck would have it....here is an example of a Gassan Sadakatsua made in Showa 18...very interesting for you....looks to me like your sword is right. this has papers too...try

http://www.toukenkomachi.com/index_en_kaccyu&bugu.html

 

click on "Japanese Sword/Katana" and "Sadakatsu" and "enlarged image 2" for nakago/mei.

Geo.

[Bazza]

Well, as luck would have it....here is an example of a Gassan Sadakatsua made in Showa 18...very interesting for you....looks to me like your sword is right. this has papers too...try

http://www.toukenkomachi.com/index_en_kaccyu&bugu.html

 

click on "Japanese Sword/Katana" and "Sadakatsu" and "enlarged image 2" for nakago/mei.

Geo.

Gents All,

A very interesting thread indeed, as I have a Gassan Sadakatsu katana dated 1939. Polished in Japan it has an NBTHK Hozon paper. I've not been able to study the mei presented here due to other commitments, but I doubt the blade in question is by the hand of Sadakatsu because he died in 1943. Many blades in his later years were most likely made by his son, Gassan Sadakazu II. Put "gassan sadakatsu" (with quotes) into google to pull up more information, including a lovely tanto on Darcy Brockbank's website. I'll try and put up photos of my sword tomorrow.

 

Regards,

Barry Thomas

aka BaZZa.

[george trotter]

I doubt the blade in question is by the hand of Sadakatsu because he died in 1943. Many blades in his later years were most likely made by his son, Gassan Sadakazu II.

 

Interesting thread indeed Baz,

...the two swords mentioned here are dated Sho 18/6 (post) and Sho 18/8 (link). Gassan Sadakatsu died Sho 18/12...so he was alive when these two were made. I don't know the circumstances of his health, maybe he worked up to his death, maybe not...maybe his son did "help out" here...very interesting research project.

George.

[kaigunair]

Yes, I knew that he had passed in December of 1943. I haven't read about the circumstances, which at first take would seem alittle morbid to wonder about, but would definitely help determine whether he was making blades right up to his passing or not.

I also know much is written about Sadakatsu making blades under the name of his father, Sadakazu (the first). I had not read anywhere that Sadakatsu's son did this. That would be a very good thing to find out, as it would show another interesting connection between the Gassan generations...

 

From: http://moderntosho.com/biographies/Sada ... anBio.html (this appears to jive with the info I recall reading in the Gassan book)

 

Gassan Sadakatsu was born in 1869, the first son of Gassan Sadakazu in Osaka and the third heir to the Gassan line since it’s reestablishment in about 1830 by Sadayoshi. He began his training at a very early age developing skills that rivaled his fathers but resisted make swords in his own name before 1918, instead assisting his father in his waning years producing daisaku swords.

....

Sadakatsu trained many students of who became skilled smiths on their own. Both he, a great portion of these smiths supplied sword blades to the Osaka Rikugun Zoheisho (Osaka Army Arsenal) during the Second World War. His deshi, Takahashi Sadatsugu became the first Living National treasure in 1955 and his son, Sadaichi (later Sadakazu II) also became a Living National Treasure in 1971. Sadakatsu died on December 24 th, 1943 at the age of 74.

[kaigunair]

Well, as luck would have it....here is an example of a Gassan Sadakatsua made in Showa 18...very interesting for you....looks to me like your sword is right. this has papers too...try

http://www.toukenkomachi.com/index_en_kaccyu&bugu.html

 

Thanks for link george! That's one I didn't find before. But there's always the possiblility that it too could be a gimie by the same hand as the one I have.

 

I'll post it here for reference...

[george trotter]

I'm not well up on papers but this link sword has NBTHK Hozon papers....wouldn't that mean Shoshin?....or can they say say Daisaku by Sadakazu?...if a sword is gimei it would not be issued any papers?

Maybe you could email them and ask them some questions re the papers?

Geo.

[kaigunair]

I've not been able to study the mei presented here due to other commitments, but I doubt the blade in question is by the hand of Sadakatsu because he died in 1943. Many blades in his later years were most likely made by his son, Gassan Sadakazu II.

 

Bazza, thanks for the input. Please don't take this the wrong way, but this is the type of statement that worries me on the forum.

 

As George pointed out, more study is warrented. However, at some point, I think we're going down rabbit trails. I guess the study of late gassan blades would expand to include a study of Sadakazu's signature, or better yet, that of all his other students who *may* have made blades and signed in Sadakatsu's place, if he was unable to make blades in 1943 time. We'd also have to pin down when he got sick and when he stopped making his own blades, as even in 1939 he would have been 70. So perhaps all blades made during ww2 are suspect due to his advanced age? ...

 

George, I didn't even consider the paper! I am still very new, so I don't know too much about papering and what info is contained. Luck (or maybe not) have it that they did not include a link to the paper itself, as I could have easily gotten that translated....

[cabowen]

Many of Sadakatsu's blades were daisaku, starting in the early 1930's and on. They were made by his son and also by several of his students-many were made by Enomoto Sadayoshi in the late '30's and early '40's.

 

Yes, Sadakatsu did die in 1943. I haven't compared the month he died to the date on this sword but many smiths had stock piles of blades that were finished after they died. There are many examples of this.

 

Most likely this is a daisaku. It would still be considered a work of Sadakatsu, nonetheless, and would paper as such. No shame in that....

[DirkO]

As for books on Gassan, there are a few I think...I only have the glossy pamphlet/booklet type they put out themselves...you'll just have to google, or hopefully someone here will help with titles.

 

I have one that's called Dewa sanzan shinko~ to Gassan to~ko~ (The Religous Practices of the Three Peaks of Dewa Province and the Gassan Swordsmiths) which I would recommend.

Shown in the catalogue are: 13 ko-gassan blades (one photo, others are oshigata), 13 blades by Gassan Sadayoshi, the founder of Osaka Gassan (one photo, others are oshigata), two blades by Sadayoshi's students (oshigata), 15 blades by Gassan Sadakazu (nine photos, rest are oshigata), 6 blades by Gassan Sadakatsu (all oshigata), 12 blades by Gassan Sadakazu II [sadaichi] (ten photos + oshigata), and 3 blades by Gassan Sadatoshi (all photos).

[kaigunair]

cabowen: thanks much for that explanation. very helpful for a new collector like me, esp. the part regarding whether daisaku is still considered "real" or "fake".

 

Zanshin: Pm sent regarding book. Hopefully I can locate a copy!

[Bazza]

For the benefit of the discussion and with apologies for the delay, here are some pics of my Gassan Sadakatsu dated March 1939. It has a NBTHK Hozon paper. I suppose this infers it is made by Sadakatsu himself, but as Chris Bowen said of the subject sword under discussion in this thread:

“Most likely this is a daisaku. It would still be considered a work of Sadakatsu, nonetheless, and would paper as such. No shame in that....”

I have always considered my sword as made by the hand of Sadakatsu himself, but now I begin to wonder…

 

If anyone wants the full high resolution image please PM me with your email address.

 

Best regards,

Barry Thomas.