Kanmuri-otoshi

[xxlotus8xx]

Greetings!

Just want to check if I am understanding this correctly.

Kanmuri-otoshi is when there is no yokote per-say and just a declining plane to the kissaki? If so is this common? Is this specific to school/region?

 

Thanks in advance for the assistance.

 

Example can be seen here.

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/xxlotus8xx/5534743007/

[Mark]

from the photo it looks like a porrly polished shinogizukuri blade. maybe it is the picture

[xxlotus8xx]

Actually never polished. The blade itself has been around possibly since Kamakura era and been through hell. But as to the tip it really looks like it was forged that way.

And the picture sucks as well..

[Grey Doffin]

We need to see a better picture to be sure, but I think Mark is right. That was my reaction also, not kanmuri-otoshi but poorly polished (it has been polished; they all have been polished at least once), maybe even reshaped kissaki.

Grey

[xxlotus8xx]

I'll see if I can take a better picture. But I meant not polished since my granddad or me has been in it's possession.

[xxlotus8xx]

Better pic.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/xxlotus8xx ... otostream/

[Marius]

It is a badly battered blade. It has probably been buffed in the past.

 

Here are blade shapes:

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/styles.html

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Ray,

No doubt left here; this is a shinogi-zukuri blade that has lost its yokote to buffing/abuse.

Grey

[xxlotus8xx]

It is a badly battered blade. It has probably been buffed in the past.

 

Here are blade shapes:

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/styles.html

 

Never buffed to my knowledge. Grand-dad brought it back from WW2, he filed it in a closet with his other memorabilia, and passed it on to me when he died.

 

The reason I bring this up is that I read in respected paper under section "The Evolution of the Work Style of the Soshu-den"

"...However in general katana sized works are few with wakizashi and tanto being the majority. Many of these are o-hira-zukura, unokubi-zukuri or other unusual constructions..."

[xxlotus8xx]

Hi Ray,

No doubt left here; this is a shinogi-zukuri blade that has lost its yokote to buffing/abuse.

Grey

 

Thanks.

[Toryu2020]

Ray -

Kanmuri-otoshi can be generally assigned to late Muromachi and Bakumatsu but apears at other times I am sure. generally it is a shape seen in tanto and short swords, sometimes on katana. For a long sword this is obviously a standard kissaki without a yokote and kanmuri or or unokubi would look very different even if in pristine never been polished state.

 

Don't forget the NCJSC meeting this Sunday - after you've seen a few examples I am sure it will be obvious to you to...

-t

[Stephen]

Ray

 

Your so lucky to be in SF area, some great minds at them meetings,,and Tom also...just kidding Tom before you push that grunpy ol man saw on me...again. :lol:

[xxlotus8xx]

Ray

 

Your so lucky to be in SF area, some great minds at them meetings,,and Tom also...just kidding Tom before you push that grunpy ol man saw on me...again. :lol:

 

Well....There OK. . Although I must admit that Tom is becoming my "goto guy". Something about a combo of greatness and having an air of being humble makes people that much greater...

[xxlotus8xx]

Ray -

Kanmuri-otoshi can be generally assigned to late Muromachi and Bakumatsu but apears at other times I am sure. generally it is a shape seen in tanto and short swords, sometimes on katana. For a long sword this is obviously a standard kissaki without a yokote and kanmuri or or unokubi would look very different even if in pristine never been polished state.

 

Don't forget the NCJSC meeting this Sunday - after you've seen a few examples I am sure it will be obvious to you to...

-t

 

I'll be there. I'm going to see if I can't catch a ride with a East Bay member.

 

And I did see lot's of examples in the midst of my research but I swear that the kissaki looks like it was forged that way because there is no evidence whatsoever of a yokote. But I guess if I was that old I might lose my defined edges as well.

[Toryu2020]

Ray -

I'll try to dig something out to help illustrate the idea. Two things to keep in mind, Number one and most important is that the yokote is not "forged" into the blade. The general shape is created on the anvil, after tempering the smith may use files and scrapers to refine the lines of the shinogi and hira-ji. I suppose toward the end of the process he could rough out the yokote but the few blades I have seen at this stage did not have the yokote yet. That is the job of the polisher who is the one who decides just where it should go. There is a possibility your swords has never been polished and that is why it has not yokote.

 

The other thing you need to recognize looking at polished swords is just where the lines of the shinogi curve up to the point, on ko-kissaki, chu-kissaki and O-kissaki. Imagine them without the yokote and after a while you'll see the obvious differences and know where to place your own blade.

-t

[xxlotus8xx]

Ray -

I'll try to dig something out to help illustrate the idea. Two things to keep in mind, Number one and most important is that the yokote is not "forged" into the blade. The general shape is created on the anvil, after tempering the smith may use files and scrapers to refine the lines of the shinogi and hira-ji. I suppose toward the end of the process he could rough out the yokote but the few blades I have seen at this stage did not have the yokote yet. That is the job of the polisher who is the one who decides just where it should go. There is a possibility your swords has never been polished and that is why it has not yokote.

 

The other thing you need to recognize looking at polished swords is just where the lines of the shinogi curve up to the point, on ko-kissaki, chu-kissaki and O-kissaki. Imagine them without the yokote and after a while you'll see the obvious differences and know where to place your own blade.

-t

 

Ya I thought about the forged vs polishing thing after I posted. Oh well...

If you like I'll bring the blade Sunday and you can see. There is no obvious or reminiscence of a yokote. I mean all the other geometry is there...Just not that.

And always thanks for the help and insight..