Ko-sukashi tsuba with amida yasuri - what school?

[andreYes]

Please help me to identify the following tsuba:

mumei iron tsuba, slightly goishi gata, with fine amida yasuri. Mimi is slightly raised (itobuchi ?). Ko-sukashi of two sakura flowers. Size: 7.34 x 7.30 cm, thickness 0.43-0.25 cm.

 

Could it be an Umetada school tsuba?

Age - Edo? Middle or late?

[John A Stuart]

I would definitely attribute this tsuba to Katchushi group. The amidayasuri, the kiku sukashi and the uchikaeshimimi are all within their techniques. I don't subscribe to it being Umetada style. I am not sure of the age, but, could conceivably be Momoyama, early Edo period. John

[Curran]

Would mostly agree with John.

Peanut gallery quick opinion: Katchushi, early Edo.

 

Nice one. Well done.

Walls of the sukashi would give a partial clue to age.

[Thierry BERNARD]

here an umetada tsuba

 

Length 77mm

Width 77mm

Thickness 4.3mm

age about from 17 to 18 century

[andreYes]

Thank you, John and Curran!

Katsushi was first guess, but I got some doubts when I found in "Nihon To Koza" that amida yasuri, slightly raised edge (called there "itobuchi") and ko-sukashi are characteristics of some Umetada school artists' works. Then I found a similar tsuba with inscription "Umetada" here...

 

Interesting example, Thierry. If there was no shinsa paper, my opinion would be also Katchushi...

[docliss]

Andrey's tsuba is, to my eye, very reminiscent of Umetada Tadatsugu work. John L.

[John A Stuart]

Doesn't the uchikaeshimimi eliminate it as later Umetada (of course with exceptions), unless ko Umetada? John

[Soshin]

Based upon similar tsuba in my collection and what I have seen I would say early Edo Katchushi. I really like the tsuba. :D This is all just my opinion. The ko-sukashi designs I don't think are as complex as you see in the Umetada school during the early to middle Edo. The mimi is also characteristic of Katchushi. The provided Umetada example shows this more complex ko-sukashi design I am referring to as well as the difference in the mimi.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David S.

[Curran]

Soon to bed and tired as one can get, so forgive me if I am not laser precise on this.

 

I always forget that this design is common in the later Umetada works.

However, the Umetada work seems to usually be of flatter plate without worked mimi. Also, the sukashi usually has an overlapping image at some point- as illustrated by the two examples of Umetada tsuba posted.

 

I could be wrong and it is Umetada, but I agree with John about the mimi. I also see a raised surface similar to what I call go-stone shape that seems to have been slightly in vogue among certain smiths during the 1600s. I own a very nice example of this sort, but no images of it. Also, the sukashi says to me that it has naturally aged (thinned) a bit more in keeping with slightly older work. My gut feeling was and is that this is 1600s katchuchi style work. I'd date it somewhere between 1650 and 1700s.

 

Confidence level is not absolute, but I lean away from an Umetada attribution.

[John A Stuart]

I think the shape is goishigata 碁石形 John

[Pete Klein]

This to me looks to be classic Den Umetada Edo jidai work and does resemble Tadatsugu work as John pointed out. The fine amida yasuri and uchikaeshi mimi were used with different sukashi work themes from shells to snow flakes to blossoms in differing numbers. There is usually a bit of a curvature to the plate as well but not always.

 

And you not?

[Curran]

Peter,

When it comes to kantei, especially in anything pre-Edo, I'd rather see your name on the issued papers than mine. I could easily be talked into a _den_ Umetada Edo Jidai attribution. Observing from a photo and processing what I see, I remain inclined to date it a bit earlier and less likely to be one of the (Shoami)-Umetada works. Sukashi is less. Shape is slightly different than I think as common Umetada works of this sort. Age in the sukashi looks older to me, but not that old. Another answer is it could be somewhat earlier Umetada work than most I have seen.

For now I will stick to my initial opinion.

 

John,

 

I described it as go stone shaped because it looks to have the identical shape as the signed tosho tsuba I have from early Edo. Jim Gilbert described it as go stone shaped, but reviewing textbook illustrations of what is meant by goishigata, this is not quite what I meant. I don't know if Jim's use of the terminology was wrong at the time, or if it can include tsuba that swell up slightly from the seppa dai and wave down to the mimi.

[Pete Klein]

OK -- let's see if this helps. When I see tsuba which are repetitive in design (meaning I have seen many/countless examples) with semi-refined features (such as fine amida yasuri, fine mimi, etc.) I tend to think Edo period. Pre-Edo work was less inclined to 'mass' production (using this term loosely) and more toward individualistic design and shall we say a more 'rustic' expression (think what are called 'pre-Edo Owari' sukashi and 'wabi'). (This is not to say that refined work was not produced pre-Edo but that it would have been unique or low production). The fundamental goal of the Tokugawa Bakufu was stratification and control by strict hierarchical rule in all facets of society. Confucianism ruled and individualism was crushed. In this environment once a design was deemed 'acceptable' it was worked over like annual car models. Samurai being held under control of the Bakufu had little say as to what they could wear as sword furniture, at least 'on duty' as it were. What we see later around Genroku in the Machibori work was supported by the 'Chonin' class (merchants) and was somewhat 'outside' of the Bakufu's direct influence as the merchant class was considered the lowest and therefore beneath the dignity of the samurai. What is interesting is that around the time of Iyeasu where there was a window of radicalism (think 'Kabuki') where the samurai, now without wars to fight, went toward extremes in culture, clothing and actions. By 1630 this had been successfully quashed by the Bakufu but I have come to believe that much of what we see in tsuba design under the term 'sukashi' began in this time frame being influenced by Ikebana design concepts the practice of which was flourishing. There is little actual evidence of these tsuba existing before this era (take a look through 'Uchigatana Koshirae' and note that there are practically no sukashi tsuba on the koshirae shown from times prior to Edo). Interesting, no? In any case, tsuba produced in numbers with repetitive design components yields the rationale for my attributing the tsuba in question to Edo Jidai, and in this case den Umetada from previously observed examples in hand and literature.

[John A Stuart]

Hi Pete, I understand your reasoning, but, was there not great repetitiveness in design elements before the Tokugawa period? The tea ceremony chanoyu was in high regard mid Muromachi in the home provinces particularly Yamashiro and Owari and with it the related arts of ikebana, chodo, etc. Muromachi period guards reflect this I think. One of the main points in attributing Katchushi to a guard is the ucikaeshimimi, 99% I had thought, of course not limited to and not always, are rules ever thus? I include some guards of Katchushi sukashi dated to period, with one having no uchikaeshimimi to be fair, for reflection on repetitive design element origins. John

[Pete Klein]

I have great doubt that the eras noted reflect reality in relation to those tsuba shown.

PS: I do not believe in the dogma of Sasano in the least.

[Curran]

Not crazy about Sasano dating or even attributions in some cases. Just like more than a few of his tsuba.

 

Overly intelligent composition by Peter for a tsuba that I don't think merits the gray matter used.

I'm not debating much.

I place it a bit earlier in Edo than the bulge of these produced assembly line by Umetada workers later in Edo.

[John A Stuart]

Those tsuba were dated as per Torigoye from the Tsuba Kanshoki. Another that has some controversy attached, eh? I have trouble with some dating of tsuba being pushed back to the mid Kamakura, but, find the Muromachi period production very feasible. I as well am not arguing a point, if wrong, nothing new. I am presenting why I arrived at Katchushi for discussion prior to M. Guillotine. John

[Pete Klein]

ROFLMAO!!! Good form sir -- jolly good Form! LOL

 

Actually I'm being the heretic this day but in seriousness I feel that there is this problem we all face with the dogma of old books and old men where little if any actual scientific process was utilized. We all need to really look at these little gems of creativity with fresh eyes and a bit of logic and re-think the field, what?

[Pete Klein]

PS: The papered 'Umetada' tsuba on the previous page is most likely a Toda Hikozaemon of Owari piece.

[Steve Waszak]

Interesting discussion here... Just to add to the mix, here is a photo of a later-generation Hoan (Kanenobu? Kaneshige?). It features a similar amida-yasuri to the tsuba in question, as well as an even more pronounced go-stone shape. I wonder if this style wasn't simply a popular one for several schools to produce at a particular point in the early-Edo period...

 

Cheers,

 

Steve

[Pete Klein]

I wouldn't be surprised if it had to do with some techno advance which allowed the fine yasuri to be cut. They became the next fashion to be abandoned.

[Steve Waszak]

Yeah, probably, Pete...

 

One comment/thought on your speculation that sukashi tsuba may not even have been made (largely) until the Edo Period: this then would mean that the tsubako whom we know lived in Momoyama times and who did make sukashi (including ji-sukashi) tsuba---Nobuiye, Yamakichibei, Hoan (shodai)---would be the first to employ (ji-)sukashi in their designs... Thought-provoking...

 

Cheers,

 

Steve

[Pete Klein]

Ohhh -- funny you should mention that...! I do get the feeling that Azuchi era Owari was the epicenter for the early development of sukashi in tsuba. I am not saying that it was never used anywhere else or at any other time but I would not be surprised if the design trend started in Owari at Kiyosu with Oda Nobunaga's military suppliers and eventually spread from there to the new Edo with the governmental movement from Kyoto of the Tokugawa Shogunate (Bakufu). With the turn of the century came the Tokugawa replacing the Toyotomi and with it the beginning of real closure to war. As I mentioned earlier there was a movement which started with Kabuki of young soldiers becoming highly extroverted in demeanor. Before this time tsuba for the most part would have been personal items shared only in private time with the exception of Court wear and Tachi field wear for nobles / generals which by design were demonstrative of rank. Now, with this exuberance came extroverted exhibitionism of the lower ranks. The tsuba would now 'stand out' and say something to the public as opposed to the old way of being more quietly shared, such as in tea (chanoyu). Sukashi were perfect for this show and tell. Therefore, the explosion of the sukashi form of tsuba.

[Steve Waszak]

Hi Pete,

 

Most intriguing line of thought here. Certainly the kabuki you reference would have seen cross currents with Furuta Oribe at the helm of Tea Culture in Japan between 1592 and 1615; his designs for Tea ceramics would be a good example of the manifestation of this kabuki sensibility, I think. Interesting, too, to speculate on whether his "opening up" of the tea room itself (so famously dim under Rikyu's lead) by employing a number of windows might have had some influence on the "opening up" of more types of ji-sukashi tsuba. I have little doubt that there was an intimate association between Tea aesthetics and certain (Owari Province) tsuba aesthetics/design, particularly under Oribe. If such an association was indeed established and recognized among some tsubako, it isn't much of a stretch to see other forms of more expressive tsuba emerge under Oribe's influence.

 

One further thought: the proliferation of ji-sukashi tsuba coincides with the ceasing of both warfare and dueling, I believe. If I remember correctly, the bakufu disapproved of dueling soon after the close of the Momoyama Period. With attack from a blade-armed opponent now greatly diminished, a less robust type of tsuba becomes less risky to use on one's koshirae...

 

Cheers,

 

Steve

[Pete Klein]

Steve -- I would add that the relationship to tsubako must have been earlier, most likely under the rule of Oda Nobunaga and his tea master Sen no Rikyu (~1573) who's wabi-cha he greatly admired. I believe that this aesthetic sensibility is seen in the work of Nobuie.

[John A Stuart]

Like Pete, I believe the aesthetic influenced by tea is much earlier than Furuta Oribe's time. During the Muromachi period Kyoto had to endure some major upheavals, the Onin war, the Do ikki revolts, the clash between the Hokke ikki and Ikko ikki and on. In fact at certain periods the bakufu of the Ashikaga shogunate was based in Sakai and indeed in Sakai and Omi concurrently with two bakufu courts and Shogun. Focusing on Sakai we will find that it had a close relationship with Nara and the religious community and temples there. (note, Zen priests) Traditionally Sakai had closer ties with Nara and the religious economy than Kyoto, forwarding rents for the shrines and temples of Nara and the Kii peninsula, as well as the anti-shugo Ouchi and forwarding rents to Koyasan. Rents collected, in rice primarily, could be exchanged at Sakai [or Hyogo] via the kawase system which were bodily moved by the kaisen. As well, in c. 1530 CE Sakai had a population of over 30 thousand people and one of the largest urban centres of the time. I won't go to far back in tea history, but, only that which influenced tsubako and of course the other arts as well. Sakai was the port which received the shipping to and from China (official trade) and the intellectual trade as well. This is the place which gave birth to Murata Shuko in 1422. He was a student of Zen priest Ikkyu and was familiar with the tea competitions Tocha and Chanoyu, Chayoriai. It was Shuko who combined these elements of tea Cha-e to form Wabicha (Pete mentioned). In 1502, the year of Shuko's death, Takeno Jo-o was born, again in Sakai, who improved upon Shuko's chado. Sen Soeki (priestly name later Rikyu) was born, as well, in Sakai and his influence in the wabi sabi aspect was strong, however, Shuko would be the avatar primus, even influencing the architecture of the time, open Shoin style to a closer intimate style. At the same time Kyoto artisans became isolated and trade from Kyoto was inward not outward. Sakai had many artisans (it was basically a guild city and ruled by the merchant class, {egoshu}) and it was here where I think you will find the innovation caused by the tea sensibility. Mid Muromachi!!! My thinking about it anyway. John

[Pete Klein]

Well, I would say that although the tree was planted by Shuko it did not bear fruit until Rikyu. Bet you didn't know that tsuba came from trees now did you? (talk about going out on a limb... LOL)!

 

BTW: from wikipedia.org on Kabuki:

 

 

 

please note the tsuba...

[Steve Waszak]

John and Pete,

 

While there can be little doubt of the growth and evolution of wabi Tea over the course of the late Muromachi period, as well as of its increasing influence on other aspects of Japanese culture, I do not believe that wabi Tea's expansion from the early to mid-1500s saw much if any direct (or maybe even indirect) influence on tsuba. Tea as practiced by the nobility and higher-ranking bushi during this time was decidedly Chinese in its aesthetic sensibility, from the utensils used to the design and atmosphere of the tea rooms the ceremony was held in. Chinese utensils commanded by far the most admiration, respect, and value: antique Chinese bowls, vases, paintings, etc... were highly sought after by the "high society" individuals we're discussing here.

 

As you note, John, the emergence of wabi cha in the early 16th century began to break down the much more formal and "elegant" Chinese-inspired Shoin Tea dominant at the time. Korean wares began to find their way into Tea culture, wares which were more "earthy" in their expression. The shift from perfectly formed Chinese vessels to Korean pieces which may present with some irregularities and/or asymmetry is seen by many to be an example of wabi-cha sensibilities influencing the taste of tea aficionados, but this shift was quite gradual: over much if not all of the latter half of the 16th century, both Chinese and Korean utensils, as well as certain Japanese wares (Shino, Iga, Shigaraki, Bizen, and of course, Seto) were all employed in various interpretations/expressions of cha-no-yu.

 

However, so far as tsuba are concerned, I really do not see tea culture, wabi or otherwise, affecting tsuba design/aesthetics until the Momoyama period. I would agree with Pete that the most likely source of this influence of tea aesthetics on tsuba is the Oda Nobunaga-Sen no Rikyu dynamic, but in my eyes the impact of the Tea aesthetic on tsuba design and expression reaches full flower with Furuta Oribe in the 25 years from 1591-1615. Even with Rikyu, I would say the influence of his taste and ideas as regards Tea aesthetics finds only rather tenuous manifestation in tsuba design. Pete, you mention the possibility of Rikyu's aesthetic sensibility manifesting in the work of Nobuiye. I can see some of this in certain Nobuiye guards, much less so in others. But to me, the aesthetic link between Rikyu and Nobuiye is significantly less pronounced than that between Oribe and Yamakichibei (especially the "nidai" Yamakichibei). I would be curious to see a few examples of Nobuiye tsuba that you would see as having close associations with Rikyu's aesthetic sensibility...

 

I have to wonder, too, if Rikyu's class standing as a merchant (granted, social stratifications in Momoyama Japan were not close to as severe as we see in Tokugawa Japan, but merchants were nevertheless hardly seen as equals by the buke) may have limited his influence when it comes to how much his sensibilities affected tsuba design. After all, the drinking of tea, as popular as it was among the buke, was not limited to their class. Rikyu would have had less direct contact with tsubako, and with swords more broadly speaking, than he would have had with potters and pottery, I would think. Furuta Oribe, on the other hand, was a daimyo. I would be surprised if this difference did not matter to some degree here...

 

Cheers,

 

Steve

[lonely panet]

was just reading this old post, very interesting. I bought a tsuba simular to the above papered umetada 

 

I assumed this tsuba was tosho from the mid Edo but they share similarities 

[sabi]

Wow, thanks to Hamfish for bringing this one up from the depths!  Some fantastic discussion here from Pete and Steve about the close relationship between tea, ceramics and tsuba, with some wonderful cultural context thrown in for good measure.  

 

I'm well beyond fashionably late to the party, but seeing as this thread pre-dates my interest in the hobby by a few years and it's right up my very narrow alley, I might as well see myself in. 

 

 

OK -- let's see if this helps. When I see tsuba which are repetitive in design (meaning I have seen many/countless examples) with semi-refined features (such as fine amida yasuri, fine mimi, etc.) I tend to think Edo period. Pre-Edo work was less inclined to 'mass' production (using this term loosely) and more toward individualistic design and shall we say a more 'rustic' expression (think what are called 'pre-Edo Owari' sukashi and 'wabi'). (This is not to say that refined work was not produced pre-Edo but that it would have been unique or low production). The fundamental goal of the Tokugawa Bakufu was stratification and control by strict hierarchical rule in all facets of society. Confucianism ruled and individualism was crushed. In this environment once a design was deemed 'acceptable' it was worked over like annual car models. Samurai being held under control of the Bakufu had little say as to what they could wear as sword furniture, at least 'on duty' as it were. What we see later around Genroku in the Machibori work was supported by the 'Chonin' class (merchants) and was somewhat 'outside' of the Bakufu's direct influence as the merchant class was considered the lowest and therefore beneath the dignity of the samurai. What is interesting is that around the time of Iyeasu where there was a window of radicalism (think 'Kabuki') where the samurai, now without wars to fight, went toward extremes in culture, clothing and actions. By 1630 this had been successfully quashed by the Bakufu but I have come to believe that much of what we see in tsuba design under the term 'sukashi' began in this time frame being influenced by Ikebana design concepts the practice of which was flourishing. There is little actual evidence of these tsuba existing before this era (take a look through 'Uchigatana Koshirae' and note that there are practically no sukashi tsuba on the koshirae shown from times prior to Edo). Interesting, no? In any case, tsuba produced in numbers with repetitive design components yields the rationale for my attributing the tsuba in question to Edo Jidai, and in this case den Umetada from previously observed examples in hand and literature.

 

Well, I would say that although the tree was planted by Shuko it did not bear fruit until Rikyu. Bet you didn't know that tsuba came from trees now did you? (talk about going out on a limb... LOL)!

BTW: from wikipedia.org on Kabuki:

Okuni_kabuki_byobu-zu_cropped_and_enhanced.jpeg

please note the tsuba...

 

 

Great post Pete, and that image is a nice find.  Whenever I come across a new painting or print depicting kabuki fashion, I make a point to study the details their dress and koshirae.  Unfortunately most images in my books are too small to show much of the latter, especially the tsuba.  

 

Below is an excerpt from the book Bonds of Civility:  Aesthetic Networks and the Political Origins of Japanese Culture by Eiko Ikegama.  The middle paragraph touches on your thought about individuality being stymied by the Tokugawa Bakufu, and is accompanied by a very interesting bit about kabuki style.  In particular, I found the reference of "showy red scabbards and "distinctive, large sword guards"  to be a gem.  Could "distinctive" be a reference to the new, eye-catching openwork on large iron plates??  I go back and forth on my opinion of the timeline of these big ji-sukashi tsuba.  I don't doubt some are pre-Edo but I tend to lean towards the thinking that most earlier examples are of the smaller variety we see among Kanayama, and the many Owari area guards in the 7cm-ish range with gnarly iron.

 

 

 

 

John and Pete,

While there can be little doubt of the growth and evolution of wabi Tea over the course of the late Muromachi period, as well as of its increasing influence on other aspects of Japanese culture, I do not believe that wabi Tea's expansion from the early to mid-1500s saw much if any direct (or maybe even indirect) influence on tsuba. Tea as practiced by the nobility and higher-ranking bushi during this time was decidedly Chinese in its aesthetic sensibility, from the utensils used to the design and atmosphere of the tea rooms the ceremony was held in. Chinese utensils commanded by far the most admiration, respect, and value: antique Chinese bowls, vases, paintings, etc... were highly sought after by the "high society" individuals we're discussing here.

As you note, John, the emergence of wabi cha in the early 16th century began to break down the much more formal and "elegant" Chinese-inspired Shoin Tea dominant at the time. Korean wares began to find their way into Tea culture, wares which were more "earthy" in their expression. The shift from perfectly formed Chinese vessels to Korean pieces which may present with some irregularities and/or asymmetry is seen by many to be an example of wabi-cha sensibilities influencing the taste of tea aficionados, but this shift was quite gradual: over much if not all of the latter half of the 16th century, both Chinese and Korean utensils, as well as certain Japanese wares (Shino, Iga, Shigaraki, Bizen, and of course, Seto) were all employed in various interpretations/expressions of cha-no-yu.

However, so far as tsuba are concerned, I really do not see tea culture, wabi or otherwise, affecting tsuba design/aesthetics until the Momoyama period. I would agree with Pete that the most likely source of this influence of tea aesthetics on tsuba is the Oda Nobunaga-Sen no Rikyu dynamic, but in my eyes the impact of the Tea aesthetic on tsuba design and expression reaches full flower with Furuta Oribe in the 25 years from 1591-1615. Even with Rikyu, I would say the influence of his taste and ideas as regards Tea aesthetics finds only rather tenuous manifestation in tsuba design. Pete, you mention the possibility of Rikyu's aesthetic sensibility manifesting in the work of Nobuiye. I can see some of this in certain Nobuiye guards, much less so in others. But to me, the aesthetic link between Rikyu and Nobuiye is significantly less pronounced than that between Oribe and Yamakichibei (especially the "nidai" Yamakichibei). I would be curious to see a few examples of Nobuiye tsuba that you would see as having close associations with Rikyu's aesthetic sensibility...

I have to wonder, too, if Rikyu's class standing as a merchant (granted, social stratifications in Momoyama Japan were not close to as severe as we see in Tokugawa Japan, but merchants were nevertheless hardly seen as equals by the buke) may have limited his influence when it comes to how much his sensibilities affected tsuba design. After all, the drinking of tea, as popular as it was among the buke, was not limited to their class. Rikyu would have had less direct contact with tsubako, and with swords more broadly speaking, than he would have had with potters and pottery, I would think. Furuta Oribe, on the other hand, was a daimyo. I would be surprised if this difference did not matter to some degree here...

Cheers,

Steve

 

Fantastic post here, my friend.  An eloquent summary of the progession of 16th C. tea culture, and I really like where you going with it...

 

You know that I completely agree with you about Yamakichibei guards best embodying the style of ceramics that bear his name, and that none did it better than the "nidai".   I can definitely see where Pete is coming from though in saying that Nobuie tsuba and Sen no Rikyu's aesthetic overlap a little bit.  His preference for Raku, and what I would call an air of quiet refinement I think is present in the great works of Nobuie, which to me are strong, dignified and noble while also being just a bit reserved. 

 

Those made by the nidai Yamakichibei once his own style is developed are to me, full on "Oribe tsuba".  I believe I even used that term in one of our conversations  .  Like a kuro-Oribe chawan or ao-Oribe tebachi, nidai tsuba emphasize form, bold designs and process to express the organic breadth and sheer presence that is so coveted from this period.  I've put together an image that shows one of my favorite comparisons between the two, and while the tsuba has an extra lobe, the similarities cannot be missed.  Their shapes are strong but in no way stiff with, plenty of "life" if you will, they share a floral motif in tandem with geometric patterns, and the overall mood is one of pure exuberance.  

 

 

 

 

My apologies for stumbling in so late, but this thread seems to have died off rather abruptly after some very thought provoking posts.  Perhaps all it needed was a bit of time to get going again??