johnb Posted March 2, 2011 Report Posted March 2, 2011 I like this very much. What does the team think? Johnb Quote
cabowen Posted March 2, 2011 Report Posted March 2, 2011 Interesting....doesn't appear to be very old....what kind of blade is in it? Quote
johnb Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Posted March 2, 2011 Not sure on the blade. I'll try and get some pics. John Quote
johnb Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Posted March 2, 2011 I blew up one of the pics. It seems to have patches of crushed abalone here and there. Quote
sanjuro Posted March 2, 2011 Report Posted March 2, 2011 Quite decent quality, and as someone already noted it doesnt appear to be all that old. The extra long menuki also point to a more recent date of manufacture although the style is semi Momoyama-ish. It certainly raises a few questions style wise as far as the period of manufacture goes. Quote
johnb Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Posted March 2, 2011 I would have thought late Edo? John Quote
Muki Posted March 2, 2011 Report Posted March 2, 2011 How does one go about trying to classify age of koshirae? Quote
johnb Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Posted March 2, 2011 I may well be wrong, but I suspect it's a safe bet to say mid to late Edo for the majority than turn up. Or even newer. Johnb Quote
johnb Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Posted March 2, 2011 Showa? Really? What makes you say that? JohnB Quote
Henry Wilson Posted March 2, 2011 Report Posted March 2, 2011 The menuki are canes I think which suggest the Meiji period. Sorry to be so blunt but personally I think it is ugly and it looks cheap and flashy. The copper fittings are nothing to write home about and the saya pattern is a bit over the top. The leather binding is nice though. Quote
Lorenzo Posted March 2, 2011 Report Posted March 2, 2011 Showa? Really? What makes you say that? Have you ever seen old and traditional fittings in which the only decoration is obtained by acid etching here and there :? Quote
johnb Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Posted March 2, 2011 Well...I believe it was a technique used in Europe as long ago as the middle ages. They used it to decorate guns, armour, cups and plates. In the 1500's they adapted it for printing, so I would have to answer...yes I have seen it. JohnB Quote
johnb Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Posted March 2, 2011 The menuki are canes I think which suggest the Meiji period. Sorry to be so blunt but personally I think it is ugly and it looks cheap and flashy. The copper fittings are nothing to write home about and the saya pattern is a bit over the top. The leather binding is nice though. Canes or bamboo shoots Henry, what do you think? As to the flashy Momoyama look, I quite like it. It's a "Hot Rod" Koshirea. I've used urushi quite a lot and I have to say, the finish is very good and would have taken some time and skill to achieve. Johnb Quote
Lorenzo Posted March 2, 2011 Report Posted March 2, 2011 John, here we are discussing about a Japanese sword koshirae and not European guns, armour, cups and plates Quote
johnb Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Posted March 2, 2011 John, here we are discussing about a Japanese sword koshirae and not European guns, armour, cups and plates Sorry Lorenzo, I thought you were implying that acid etching is a contemporary technique...hence Showa. JohnB Quote
Lorenzo Posted March 2, 2011 Report Posted March 2, 2011 No, I was implying that it's use in Japanese sword fittings doesn't sound all that traditional to me, hence Showa. Just trying to clarify my point as I have been prompted to do so; I may be wrong. Quote
johnb Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Posted March 2, 2011 I am also unsure, but I bet Mr Hallam could clear that one up for us! JohnB Quote
sanjuro Posted March 2, 2011 Report Posted March 2, 2011 Its OK to say that this koshirae is cheap and flashy, but that is only a subjective opinion. A matter of ones personal taste or ones personal opinion of what is or isnt in good taste. What concerns me more is the mixed period nature of the entire ensemble. It is if I can borrow a phrase, neither fish nor fowl. This of course is a feature of quite a few late Edo and Showa koshirae and may well be taken as an indicator of its age. Quote
Henry Wilson Posted March 2, 2011 Report Posted March 2, 2011 Canes or bamboo shoots Henry, what do you think?I think bamboo shoots are straight, and don't have a metal handle or a metal tip, which I think is what is seen on the menuki. Its OK to say that this koshirae is cheap and flashy, but that is only a subjective opinion. A matter of ones personal taste or ones personal opinion of what is or isnt in good taste.Indeed, which is what the initial post was fishing for:I like this very much. What does the team think? I think the fittings Bakumatsu to Meiji and the koshirae was constructed in the Showa period. neither fish nor fowlIs actually what I find unappealing about the koshirae and think there are probably better examples to be found. Just my two yen Quote
cabowen Posted March 3, 2011 Report Posted March 3, 2011 I think the fittings Bakumatsu to Meiji and the koshirae was constructed in the Showa period. That is what I meant by "not old".... Quote
John A Stuart Posted March 3, 2011 Report Posted March 3, 2011 Wouldn't the copper have oxidised to some extent by now. This is bright freshly minted copper colour. Makes me think it was made in the last couple of years, unless clear coated, but, it doesn't look like it. John Quote
Lee Bray Posted March 3, 2011 Report Posted March 3, 2011 I think the menuki are take no ko - bamboo shoots. The alternating diagonal lines are the edges of the new leaves. Quote
sanjuro Posted March 3, 2011 Report Posted March 3, 2011 I too had thought it looked a little on the fresh side, particularly on the saya. That however could also be the result of the cleaning efforts of a dealer or other well meaning but ill informed clod. I'm not aware of any alloy used for kanagu that does not 'age'. It bodes ill that this koshirae gives an appearance of having been assembled from perhaps disparate parts, hence the 'neither fish nor fowl' comment I made earlier. I suspect the tsuka to be of an earlier date than the saya and the other tosogu, and perhaps that is where the mixed reactions to this koshirae are originating. I really hate being a doom sayer. Quote
johnb Posted March 3, 2011 Author Report Posted March 3, 2011 Doom sayer Keith? (or would "doom saya" be more appropriate?). I don't think you're a doom sayer at all. The fact is, whether or not it's a koshirae of no consequence doesn't change the fact that it has fallen into good hands. Someone who will enjoy and look after it. I think sometimes we can be too purist about our passion. I have about 20 or so swords, most of them of no consequence. The majority have come from combing antique shops in Asia and occasionally the UK. I have uncovered a very nice Kanbun shinto katana in original mounts, a fantastic find from Sumatra in military mounts, which may well be a Kanemitsu (yes that Kanemitsu). And one or two others of interest. This doesn't negate the fact that some of the other swords I own, I find very appealing too. If I hadn't found them who knows what would have happened to them? And it would be a shame if they rusted away and end up discarded to land fill! Doom sayer? No sir, not in the least. My friend who owns this is very pleased with the comments from everyone here, and is that more knowledgeable as a result. He thanks you all, as i do, this site provides a huge service to the preservation of Nihonto and that's a good thing. An exceptionally good thing. Johnb Quote
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