Nihonto in South Africa

[Cameron69]

I will start by saying that I feel privileged to be able to tap into a knowledge stream with so much depth.

 

My name is Cameron and I live in South Africa. I started collecting swords and edged weapons some time ago.

 

I habitually frequent second hand and pawn shops looking for items of interest, very seldom do I find anything of note but over the years I have had some pretty decent finds, none compare to my most recent acquisition....

 

I came across a katana in ww2 dressing, the blade has been fantastically preserved, apart from one small chip there is no damage. The blade had been covered in grease to protect it but I could see the quality of the steel and I was astounded at the keenness of the edge. The mekungi was a brass rivett that was very obviously put in a long time ago but it held things together without the option of removal. For this reason I was nervous, but I bought it anyway reasoning that I liked the feel of this weapon. It came with a letter from the original seller who was given this sword as a reward by a garrison general for after the occupation.

I very carefully removed the rivet and have exposed the signature and will be asking for assistance in translating.

This is really exiting for me as firstly I am passionate about my weapons and have always wanted to own a "samurai" sword and secondly, the further I research the more convinced I become that this blade is in fact a nihonto. I have to say that there is almost something spiritual about it and I have to stop my self from handling it too much. The fittings are a little fragile.

I just wanted to introduce myself and to say hi, I will post some pics and I will be picking as much brain as I can.

Thank you for reading....

 

Cameron

[Brian]

Cameron,

Congrats, we await pics eagerly.

Based on the fact that this forum is run out of South Africa... .....I think we may be able to hook you up with a personal opinion if you are near Jhb. Drop me a pm and we can chat.

 

Regards,

Brian

[raven2]

Welcome Cameron,

 

I, too look forward to seeing your pictures. :D

[peter]

Wecome Cameron ,

I to got a katana a few years ago with a copper pin, i look forward to seeing what yours has revealed,

Peter,

[peterqu]

Hello Cameron,There is an active Japanese Sword Society in SA that meets fairly regularly.We are always looking for new members .If you are interested drop me a pm. Regards,Peter

[Brian]

Cameron's in the Eastern Cape..one of the few areas we don't cover yet :D

But have been in contact and have a few pics. Awaiting some clearer ones, as I can't tell much yet. Will post the pics soon. So far a WW2 Shin Gunto with some fairly distressed mounts, but blade looks fine.

 

Brian

[Cameron69]

eventualy.....

[Brian]

Quite an odd one. When I saw the pics, my thoughts were "blade looks ok, but what the heck happened to the nakago?"

Appears to me to have suffered some seriosu water damage, with only the blade being cared for and not the saya or nakago. That is not normal rust...

When I got the following pic, things are a bit stranger too. Obviously some of the rust flaked off the nakago when the tsuka was removed (Cameron confirmed that) and he knows not to clean the nakago. But I am confused a bit by the nakago shape.

If I had to commit to an answer just from the habaki and nakago shape (nakago jiri too) I would say it is a WW2 blade. But that is a rough guess. Mei is not legible to me at all.

Puzzling. I would like to see this one in hand.

 

Brian

[Cameron69]

Thank you Brian. I was very carefull when I removed the tsuka. The rust that came out was not enough to fill a tea spoon. I saved it in the hopes of having it carbon dated. I must say that there is something about the copper mekungi that still makes me think. Why would anyone make their weapon unservicable?

 

I appreciate all the help and interest by the members of this forum and invite any educated opinions on this blade.

I have measured every aspect of the blade and find myself amazed by the symmetry of the interrelated parts. I can post these numbers but I need to equip my self with nomenclature.

 

Enthusiasm- plenty, subject knowledge- zero

 

I will dissasemble and cataloge over this weekend. Please can anyone with any interest unfulfilled by the current photography give me ideas on the shots they would like me to post.

 

Thanks again for your interest...

 

Cameron

[raven2]

Thank you Brian. I was very carefull when I removed the tsuka. The rust that came out was not enough to fill a tea spoon. I saved it in the hopes of having it carbon dated.

 

Hi again Cameron,

 

Please don't bother saving the rust. Carbon dating can only be done on organic material, not iron oxide.

[Brian]

This in from Ed Harbulak:

The shape and nakago jiri don't look unusual to my eyes except of course for the significant rusting. In one of the photos I can make out some yasuri and the sword certainly looks genuine. As for the excessive rust, there's at least one possible explanation. It was reported that the mekugi was copper. Copper and iron in contact with each other and with enough moisture present could cause accelerated corrosion (rusting) of the iron. Technically the process is known as bimetallic corrosion. If at some point the nakago had also been exposed to salt water and the wood of the nakago retained some salt even after it appeared to be dry, that too would hasten corrosion as salt tends to be hydroscopic and attracts moisture. While the extent of rust or corrosion appears excessive for a WWII era sword, unfortunately it can happen. I own a very nice WWII gendai by Nobufusa the nakago of which looks more like something from the mid 1600's than WWII. The sword was owned by the veteran to whom it was given at a surrender ceremony until I acquired it a few years ago. The vet kept it as a wall display in his home since the end of the war. The blade is in great shape, but as I mentioned, the nakago looks centuries older. The blade that Cameron has isn't what we like to see in such a relatively new blade, but it can happen and my guess is that the copper mekugi was the culprit. I'd venture that the copper mekugi itself is in pretty good condition, since chemically speaking it was protected by the iron sacrificially rusting instead of the copper. I suppose at this date we can't be positive as to what all happened to cause the excessive rust, but copper in contact with iron and water isn't a good idea. Hope this helps to explain what might have happened.

 

Interesting ideas. I thought there would be more opinion on the age of this piece. Can anyone make out any of the kanji at all, and is this suspected of being WW2 era or earlier? I am leaning towards WW2, but just my 2c.

 

Brian

[kusunokimasahige]

About the nakago, i cannot ascertain the signature but the rust damage is definetely consistent with salt water rust, it is very aggressive and abrasive. It is likely the tsuka at one time was drenched in this and the wood fully soaked which made the rusting process even more agressive. a copper mekugi does not help in this.

 

I have found the same type of rust damage on WWII items recovered from the beaches in France, as well as on archaological iron finds which came from a salt water environment.

 

The reason for the copper mekugi could lay in the ease with which wood rots in humid pacific environments. It is seen on Gunto swords from time to time.

 

One of the good things is that some of the file marks survived. That combined with the part signature might give clues as to its maker. The blade itself, from what i see of the pic with the tsuba looks real. The seppa and tsuba and fuchi look genuine, the saya looks quite like the saya of my own Gunto, aluminum with the same fittings. It looks like a type 94 but i would like to see photos of the top, the attachment point and the bottom parts.

 

Maybe it is also a good idea to take and post some more photos of the kissaki (tip) of the sword and the blade.

 

KM

[cabowen]

pretty certain this is a WWII era blade.....

[Cameron69]

Hi Gents,

 

Thank you for you continued intrest.

 

I have posted a few more picture and I hope that they are of acceptable quality.

 

I am learning more every day and find myself thinking words that I cannot translate....

 

Any oppinions are welcome.

 

Cameron.

[Cameron69]

Hi,

 

I forgot to ask if anyone has any idea of significance of the silver crysanthemum in the tsuka?

 

Cameron

[Mark]

maybe the maker is Fukumoto Kamemune? the silver "mon" was something the owner paid extra to have, it is a nice extra from a militaria collectors point of view

[Cameron69]

Hi All,

 

Fukumoto Kanemune? Im not so sure? I have been looking at swords on line that were signed with this name and see some similarities in particularly the 1st kanji but I cannot conclusively decide. file markings are also simmilar.

 

Cameron

[Cameron69]

borrowed pic

[Cameron69]

Total length 860mm

Nagasa 644mm

Sori 18mm

Kissaki 36mm

Mihaba at mune machi 31mm

Mihaba at yokote 20mm

Kisane at mune machi 8mm

Kisane at yokote 5mm

[Cameron69]

Sorry for not posting my name.

 

Cameron

[Geraint]

Hi Cameron.

 

The silver badge is a mon, the heraldic badge of a samurai family. They crop up on gunto mounts from time to time, often located where yours is, sometimes on the menuki. Quite often they have been defaced so that the mon is illegible, supposedly to avoid disgracing the family name through surrender.

 

Yours is not a chrysanthemum, it is a mon usually associated with the Sakai family. Always makes the sword more interesting.

 

Regards.

[Lindus]

Welcome Cameron

Little bit of info on your Mon following Geraints comment.

Roy

 

The Sakai clan (酒井氏 Sakai-shi?) was a Japanese samurai clan that claimed descent from the Nitta branch of the Minamoto clan, who were in turn descendants of Emperor Seiwa. Serata (Nitta) Arichika, a samurai of the 14th century, was the common ancestor of both the Sakai clan and the Matsudaira clan, which the Sakai later served. In the Sengoku period, under Tokugawa Ieyasu (who was the head of what was formerly the main Matsudaira family line), the Sakai became chief retainers. In the Edo period, because of their longstanding service to the Tokugawa clan, the Sakai were classified as a fudai family, in contrast with the tozama ("outsider clans").

Saikai Mon {Family crest

he fudai[1] Sakai clan originated in 14th century Mikawa Province.[1] They claim descent from Minamoto no Arichika. Arichika had two sons; one of them, Yasuchika, took the name of Matsudaira, while the other son, Chikauji, took the name of Sakai. Chikauji is the ancestor of the Sakai clan. Sakai Hirochika, Chikauji's son, had two sons as well, and the descendants of these two sons gave rise to the two principal branches of the clan.[2] The senior branch was founded by Sakai Tadatsugu (1527–1596). Tadatsugu, a vassal of Tokugawa Ieyasu, was charged with the defense of Yoshida Castle in Mikawa Province. In 1578, Sakai Ietsugu (1564–1619) succeeded to his father's role as defender of Yoshida Castle. The Ie- in the beginning of Ietsugu's name was a special honor bestowed by Tokugawa Ieyasu, who intended to emphasize bonds of loyalty with those who were allowed to share in any part of his name.[3] When Ieyasu's holdings were transferred to the Kantō region in 1590, Ietsugu was installed at Usui Domain (30,000 koku) in Kōzuke Province, but, in 1604, he was moved to Takasaki Domain (50,000 koku). In 1616, he was again moved to Takata Domain (100,000 koku), this time in Echigo Province. In 1619, he was moved to Matsushiro Domain in Shinano Province; and then, from 1622 to 1868, he was installed at Tsurugaoka Domain (120,000 koku) in Dewa Province.[4] The Sakai of Tsuruoka (which later grew to 170,000 koku) in Dewa Province were prominent in the late Edo period as a military power. Charged with the safety of Edo, they were patrons of the Shinchogumi police force, and were very effective in their duties. Following the surrender of Edo, the Sakai withdrew and returned north to their domain, where they were active in the northern theater of the Boshin War, as well as becoming signatories to the pact that created the Ōuetsu Reppan Dōmei in 1868. The head of this clan line was ennobled as a "Count" in the Meiji period.[5]

A cadet branch was created in 1647.[6] These Sakai were installed from 1647 through 1868 at Matsumine Domain (20,000 koku) in Dewa Province; the castle at Matsumine was constructed in 1779. The head of this clan line was ennobled as a "Viscount" in the Meiji period.[5]

Another cadet branch was founded by Sakai Masachika (+1576). Vassal of the Tokugawa – Tokugawa Nobutada, Tokugawa Kiyoyasu and Tokugawa Hirotada. In 1561, he was installed at Nishio Castle in Mikawa Province, and the security of the castle was confided in him.[2] In 1590, Sakai Shigetada, the son of Masachika, received the Kawagoe Domain (15,000 koku) in Musashi Province; then in 1601, he was installed at Umayabashi Domain (35,000 koku) in Kōzuke Province.[7]

In 1749, the descendants of Sakai Tadakiyo (1626–1681) were transferred to Himeji Domain (150,000 koku) in Harima Province ; and they remained daimyō at Himeji until the Meiji period.[7] This cadet branch of the Sakai had been created in 1590.[6] The head of this clan line was first ennobled as a "Count" and in the Meiji period.[7]

Yet another cadet branch of the Sakai had been created in 1668,[8] These Sakai were installed from 1668 through 1868 at Katsuyama Domain (12,000 koku) in Awa Province. The head of this clan line was ennobled as a "Viscount" in the Meiji period.[7]

A further cadet branch of the Sakai had been created in 1681,[8] These Sakai were installed in 1681 through 1868 at Isezaki Domain (20,000 koku) in Kōzuke Province. The head of this clan line was ennobled as a "Viscount" in the Meiji period.[7]

Sakai Tadatoshi (1562–1627) received the fief of Tanaka Domain (10,000 koku) in Suruga Province in 1601; then his holding was transferred in 1609 to Kawagoe Domain (30,000 koku) in Musashi province.[7]

Sakai Tadakatsu (1587–1662) was installed in 1634 through 1868 at Obama Domain (103,500 koku) in Wakasa Province .[7] This cadet branch of the Sakai had been created in 1590.[6] The head of this clan line was ennobled as a "Count" in the Meiji period.[7]

Finally, another cadet branch of the Sakai had been created in 1682.[8] These Sakai were installed in 1682 through 1868 at Tsuruga Domain (10,000 koku) in Echizen Province. The head of this clan line was ennobled as a "Viscount" in the Meiji period.[7]

 

PS. From the few strokes that can be seen of the mei,they look typical of the style seen on many ShowaTo, could be wrong but the blade style would tie into that.

Roy

[Cameron69]

Hi Gents.

 

Thank you both for the valuable input. You have given me a little more to chew on.

I will load some more photos.

 

I am agreeing with mark. Fukomoto Kanemun(Amahide Kanemune)The above comparison displays the same yasuri mei and there are too many similarities in the kanji to be coincidental, to my eye

[cisco-san]

Hi Cameron,

 

attached a pic from John Slough´s Oshigata book page 50.

[Brian]

Some pics from Cameron

 

Brian

[Ron STL]

Amazing, that the blade is in such good condition and the nakago so rusted. The tsuka has a family mon or crest on it which is usually a good sign that the sword was carried by someone who might have owned a "better" sword. (My opinion) Nobody has asked, but if you look at the cutting edge under and right in front of the habaki, you might see a "flat" or dulled section. This very often indicates a WWII era blade that has retained this flat area. Not 100% rule, but a good first indicator.

 

I thought with the mei appearing to be close to the mune of the nakago, this might be a good sign since (it seems) most WWII era blades -- Showa-to specifically -- tend to be "signed" down the center of the nakago. Oh yes, the cutting edge length might also be a clue since most of the WWII swords tend to fall into the 25"-26.5" nagasa. Again, not 100% rule but a good indicator for spotting a WWII Showa-to.

 

Funny how the existance of heavy rust on a nakago stimulates our imagination as we try to figure out just what we are looking at!

 

As an aside, I've had several contacts from South Africa over the years and was always fascinated that Japanese swords can be found over there. Eighteen years ago I met a young photographer -- Ivo Muller -- who imigrated from SA and brought his late father's collection of tosogu with him. He turned his many fittings and a blade or two into $$$ for buying camera equipment and we were both happy!

 

Ron H.

[Ron STL]

Sorry everyone, for my outdated post...I keep forgetting to check the "next" page of posting. Heck, it's 104 degrees today in St. Louis, maybe that got to my aging brain! Ron H.

[Brian]

Just a little tip for those unaware...

On any NMB forum page, if you look at the right hand side, where the the topics are summed up, next to the posters name under last post, there is a little black arrow and a small white page. If you click that, it takes you to your last read post in that topic, not the beginning of the post.

That is the easiest way to browse any forum..takes to to the last unread bit.

If you have a browser with middle click=open new tab, just go down the unread topics clicking those symbols and loading all the new posts in new tabs.

 

Brian