Splidge Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 Hi all First of all let me say I have nothing to do with either site nor am I intending to buy these items. http://www.japancollection.com/Japanese ... =3&ppp=100 http://yakiba.com/tsuba_brassdragon.htm I know very little about tsuba but looking at these two items the only difference I can see is the Mei, so why the difference in price? Or is that just it the Mei makes the price so different when aesthetically they look exactly the same. Kind regards Frank Quote
cabowen Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 The only thing they have in common is the motif- different artists and different materials....it is not surprising that the prices are different. Quote
Splidge Posted February 27, 2011 Author Report Posted February 27, 2011 Thanks Chris, I understand the "different artist's but different materials? I see that one has a darker patina, sorry to seem a bit thick but how do you tell? regards Frank Quote
cabowen Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 Thanks Chris, I understand the "different artist's but different materials? I see that one has a darker patina, sorry to seem a bit thick but how do you tell? regards Frank Unless I am mistaken, the first looks like iron, the second brass.... Quote
Muki Posted February 28, 2011 Report Posted February 28, 2011 One of those two sites spammed and redirected my browser and tried to phish info. jim Quote
Lee Bray Posted February 28, 2011 Report Posted February 28, 2011 One of those two sites spammed and redirected my browser and tried to phish info. jim Likewise, the second link. (Edit) - that's Ed Marshall's site so it should be ok. Can't find the brass dragon amongst his wares, though. As to the tsuba, I have a tsuba like this in silver, tanto sized, unsigned. I bought it from a reputable dealer - we'd both bid on it via ebay but he won - and it was supposed to be Edo. I was happy enough with it at the time but later, with more experience and a more critical eye, I realised it was cast. No wonder the dealer sold it to me quickly and cheaply after the auction. (It is hard to tell, he may not have known.) When it was cast, I couldn't say, but the lesson has left this tsuba shape etched on my brain. I've seen a fair few of this style tsuba now. It's oft copied, in brass, silver and iron. The iron tsuba are probably genuine and I'd say the brass and silver have a good chance of being modern copies. In the booklet,"The Japanese Sword and its Fittings" printed by the JSSNY, there is a daisho set of this tsuba in iron by Mitsunobu of Musashi province. No date is given. Quote
Splidge Posted February 28, 2011 Author Report Posted February 28, 2011 Hi thanks for your input, I have a couple of this type of tsuba well ok I have 4; the first one I bought had this to say about it: “A Bushu-Ito School sentoku tsuba in the shape of a stylized dragon. The signature reads: Bushu ju Masanao. According to Susuma Kashima’s ‘Nihon Soken Kinko Nenpyo’, this Masanao was a student of Masayoshi, the 4th generation master of the Bushu-Ito school from Edo). The condition of this well made tsuba from an old Dutch private collection is good, with minor scratching and an old patina. The tsuba measures 6,5 cm in height and 5,5 cm in width and has a thickness of 5 mm. 19th century. 1800-1849 “ This particular piece came from the Glerum Auctioneers in Amsterdam and was part of a lot that had three tsuba contained in it. The other three, well one is not signed and the other two are signed by Toshimasa none of these are made from Iron and all were bought from reputable dealers. Another piece of information I have found says that you should find a similar example in the book H L Joly Nauton page 89 N 1212 but this I cannot confirm as I do not have the said book. Regards Frank Quote
Lee Bray Posted February 28, 2011 Report Posted February 28, 2011 That book is heading my way as we write so I'll check it out. Of your three non-ferrous tsuba, are their dimensions similar? I wonder if they are cast with some hand work finishing and if that casting is modern? Not to say yours are cast, just curiosity on my part. Quote
Ed Posted February 28, 2011 Report Posted February 28, 2011 Saw this post and something about spamming/phishing so I went in and completely removed it in my host site. Actually, I don't know how you accessed the Brass dragon tsuba on my web site. It was removed some time ago. As to the tsuba, the iron one (easy to see) is quite inferior to the one I had listed. Although to be honest I too felt it was overpriced. However, it was a consignment, and I Listed it for what the owner wanted. Sadly, he didn't take my advice and it never sold. If any of you guys want a photo of the brass one I can post it here, just let me know. Quote
Splidge Posted February 28, 2011 Author Report Posted February 28, 2011 Hi Lee, Yes they are similar: Unsigned = 6.4 by 5.5 and 30g Masanao = 6.5 by 5.5 and 39g Toshimasa = 6.0 by 5.0 and 26g Toshimasa = 6.8 by 5.6 and 33g Toshimasa = 5.9 by 4.8 and 49g This the description with the 3rd Toshimasa “Tsuba Size:59mm x 48mm x 4mm, 49g Nakago Size: 23mm x 7mm Material: Yellow copper Signature: Kofu jyu Toshimasa Technique: Migakiji Aishishibori Sukashi Decoration: Uryu zu (dragon)” Sorry thought I’d miss counted I have 5 of this style. Are they cast? I’ll have to be honest and say I don’t know. When you have them all in front of you, you can see that there are differences between each one. Ed, saw your brass dragon an age ago and just saved it as a favourite so when I clicked on it, it just popped up hence the link to it, never had any problems with spam or phishing from your site though. Regards Frank Quote
Kevin Posted February 28, 2011 Report Posted February 28, 2011 One of those two sites spammed and redirected my browser and tried to phish info. It happens to websites sometimes - somebody hacks the website (frequently via .htaccess) and forces it to redirect to a phishing or malware site. The owner of the website then has to remove the hack. Kevin Quote
Splidge Posted February 28, 2011 Author Report Posted February 28, 2011 4 of mine regards Frank Quote
Ed Posted February 28, 2011 Report Posted February 28, 2011 Since you guys are looking here is the one which was in the link above: Quote
Ed Posted February 28, 2011 Report Posted February 28, 2011 There is an example shown in Joly's Naunton collection. It is in the preface on plate IV #1212. It is listed under "Various open work" and there is no information other than the translation of the mei "Tou". Quote
Splidge Posted February 28, 2011 Author Report Posted February 28, 2011 Ok last one honest Well may be regards Frank Quote
Lee Bray Posted March 1, 2011 Report Posted March 1, 2011 Here's mine. You can see the lines left by the casting quite easily and the quality is plainly not up to the ones already pictured. Dimensions are: 59mm x 48mm x 5mm. 48g. At least the price of silver is rising... Quote
Ed Posted March 1, 2011 Report Posted March 1, 2011 Looking at all of the posted examples and aside from the varying materials and levels of quality, I noticed one thing that none of these have that the one in the Naunton catalog does. At the 1200 position (very top) the ones posted here all have a hole there. The one in the catalog has the sacred jewel carved into that area. I don't remember ever seeing one like that. Quote
Splidge Posted March 1, 2011 Author Report Posted March 1, 2011 Hi Ed, that sounds interesting any chance you could scan that picture, for those of us who do not have that book. Thats another book to add on to my list regards Frank Quote
Splidge Posted March 1, 2011 Author Report Posted March 1, 2011 Hello all. I sent an e-mail to roningallery the web site in the first link to find out if as Chis thought that tsuba was indeed iron, well I have an answer and Chris was correct, In the e-mail I recieved from roningallery he also pointed me in the direction of another tsuba, if you click on the link then on tsuba at the top of the page then scroll down almost to the bottom you will find tsuba TS172 and youve guessed it, yes it's a brass Toshimasa dragon. Regards Frank Quote
reinhard Posted March 2, 2011 Report Posted March 2, 2011 Check: Japanese Swords and Sword Fittings from the Collection of Dr. Walter Ames Compton, Part II Christies NY, 1992, Lot No. 203 reinhard Quote
Ed Posted March 2, 2011 Report Posted March 2, 2011 Here is the scan you asked for. It's not great but the photo in the book is rather small to begin with. Hope it helps. Quote
Splidge Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Posted March 2, 2011 Thanks Ed, I cant say I've seen one like that either, but i'll keep my eyes open! regards Frank Quote
Lee Bray Posted March 3, 2011 Report Posted March 3, 2011 In the booklet,"The Japanese Sword and its Fittings" printed by the JSSNY, there is a daisho set of this tsuba in iron by Mitsunobu of Musashi province. No date is given. Quote
cabowen Posted March 3, 2011 Report Posted March 3, 2011 Is it just me or does this design look extremely unsuitable from a practical standpoint? Quote
Lee Bray Posted March 3, 2011 Report Posted March 3, 2011 If you mean weak, I'd tend to agree. The left side as viewed offers minimal protection as the rim is not connected to the seppa dai. Perhaps iron is strong enough but I'd worry about the softer metals. Quote
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