roninjje Posted February 15, 2007 Report Posted February 15, 2007 Well, here is a tsuba, and what I would consider its match that was discussed on another thread. Milt, John, and Barry all discussed this tsuba on the right, formerly owned by Jim Gilbert. Please take alook at the image showing front and reverse of both. Now, what school are these? Mito? Any background. They would look awesome on a daisho Quote
Bungo Posted February 15, 2007 Report Posted February 15, 2007 wow, the right one is the " sho " ? you " robbed ' me........... hahhahahahaaaaa, very very nice.............now go klick on my e-snips folders and buy some more !! By the way, I added a lot of painting pics in the two painting folders.......there's one hand scroll now mounted as kakemono that I like particularly. milt the ronin Quote
roninjje Posted February 15, 2007 Author Report Posted February 15, 2007 I should have bought them both from Barry when I had the chance at Tampa last year. But I also bought a Yoshimichi katana in goto mounts and a sukashi chrysanthamum tsuba to match. I am looking for arrow bundle menuki, and oni f/k to put a daisho together. Don't worry milt a day does not go by that I don't look at your stuff... Quote
Thierry BERNARD Posted February 15, 2007 Report Posted February 15, 2007 hi here some beautiful oni menuki http://www.espace4.com/antiquites-japon ... es-13.html Quote
roninjje Posted February 15, 2007 Author Report Posted February 15, 2007 Yes those are definitely nice. Are they for sale or display only? I am afraid I do not speak French. Quote
Thierry BERNARD Posted February 15, 2007 Report Posted February 15, 2007 hi they are for sell but I do not know if they are still available regards Quote
roninjje Posted February 15, 2007 Author Report Posted February 15, 2007 Thanks Thierry, I will inquire. Quote
Thierry BERNARD Posted February 15, 2007 Report Posted February 15, 2007 i think they speak english but if you need help tell me regards Quote
roninjje Posted February 15, 2007 Author Report Posted February 15, 2007 will do, thanks for your help. I already sent them an e-mail, but given the time change they won't be in for a while. Quote
Bungo Posted February 16, 2007 Report Posted February 16, 2007 Thierry just notice your " avitar " ( spelling ? ).............. some one was talking about that exact tsuba on another list. Do you have the tsuba ? If so , can you post some latger pics ? thanks,merci, danke............. Milt the ronin Quote
Thierry BERNARD Posted February 16, 2007 Report Posted February 16, 2007 hi yes it's one of my tsuba the same as the one scan from book Hyaku-tan [100 Tsuba] Vol2 translation 1.On a lucky day in August of 1866 2.Myochin Katsumi Ki Munenaga 3.(made this for/on request of)Sakamoto Naokata. Maybe this is the Tsuba described by Haynes at H06165!? Haynes:retainer of the Yamanouchi Daimyo of Tosa.Student of the first Akasaka Tadanori H 09135. Quote
Guido Posted February 16, 2007 Report Posted February 16, 2007 Actually neither "roninjje's" (so much for forum policies) nor Thierry's Tsuba show an Oni (yes, I noticed that the description of Thierry's Tsuba in the Japanese book states "Oni face 鬼面", but nonetheless). It's not an Oni 鬼 but a Shikami 魅. They are easily distinguished by their horns. Oni have square heads with small, conical, stubby horns. The Shikami has the face of a Shishi, and the ears and horns of an oxen, and is frequently depicted without a lower jaw (but not always). One will only see the head of a Shikami, but never the body. Shikami are sometimes described as Onimen Shishi 鬼面獅子, "devil/demon-faced lions". From the Nambokuchô period on, the Shikami was one of the favorite subjects of Maedate, like on my mid-Edo period Gosoku: Quote
roninjje Posted February 16, 2007 Author Report Posted February 16, 2007 Thanks for the information on the type of demon, I thought it looked more like a shishi than anything. btw - added my signature - sorry about that Quote
Brian Posted February 16, 2007 Report Posted February 16, 2007 Is it John? Good to have you here..I have caught your posts on the Yahoo group. (If I am not mistaking people) and have caught some of your eBay auctions. Regards, Brian Quote
roninjje Posted February 16, 2007 Author Report Posted February 16, 2007 Hi Brian, yep, John - or J.J. either is good. Actually if you look my name is on the avatar but you need a friggin microscope to see it. Quote
Thierry BERNARD Posted February 16, 2007 Report Posted February 16, 2007 i have this oni tsuba signed Nara Masayoshi, some informations on it? Quote
Bungo Posted February 16, 2007 Report Posted February 16, 2007 I know a JJ of Dinomite fame in the project, the sister was a babe though..................... Quote
Rich T Posted February 17, 2007 Report Posted February 17, 2007 This sort of information is alway valuable. So this is our new friend Shikami ? http://www.bidders.co.jp/item/82521851 Best Rich Quote
Guido Posted February 17, 2007 Report Posted February 17, 2007 Rich T said: So this is our new friend Shikami ? Nope, that's an Oni: short horns,hairy body, and the telltale claws and tiger fur pants. The face, however, resembles a Shikami, same as the last Tsuba Thierry posted. Well, as with many things Japanese, the lines get blurry sometimes. Add to that the artistic license, and you have food for dicussion for the next couple of decades ... ain't it fun? Quote
Guido Posted February 17, 2007 Report Posted February 17, 2007 BTW: kind of a fishy Kanteishô, who's the 日本美術刀剣研究保存会? And issued Meij 13, that's 1880, right? Quote
Rich T Posted February 17, 2007 Report Posted February 17, 2007 Thanks for the correction mate, yes, it makes more sense now. I looked briefly at the paper, but thought it may have been an attribution from a shop or club, but with that date on it ???, a fake ?. Rich Quote
Nobody Posted February 17, 2007 Report Posted February 17, 2007 Guido Schiller said: BTW: kind of a fishy Kanteishô, who's the 日本美術刀剣研究保存会? And issued Meij 13, that's 1880, right? The paper explains that Nobuyoshi (信盧) is its maker and he was a student of Masayoshi (政盧). And Nobuyoshi died in Meiji 13 (1880). Quote
Guido Posted February 17, 2007 Report Posted February 17, 2007 Oops, missed the 没 after the date ... Mental note to myself: engage brain before typing, make sure to read *all* that is written! Anyhow, the question of what kind of papers we're dealing with still remains. Anyone? Quote
Guido Posted February 17, 2007 Report Posted February 17, 2007 roninjje said: btw - added my signature - sorry about that Thanks for doing that - it makes replying to posts much easier. Sorry for always being so anal when it comes to real names (my philosophy: if you have to say something, be man/woman enough to identify yourself), but I think "kendoman" kind of made my point much better than I could ever had ... Quote
roninjje Posted February 18, 2007 Author Report Posted February 18, 2007 Guido, that's okay, I was always a lurker on this board and finally decided to contribute, and no Milt, not the J.J. of dynamite fame. My name is John but I publish under J.J. Eliyas - read my book, give me royalties Quote
Bungo Posted February 18, 2007 Report Posted February 18, 2007 :D JJ, , sounds lot better than the Oni/Koi dude ( you are the koi dude too if I am not mistaken ). you ought to send me your book, autographed and all for free ( for taking advantage of my good nature ) !!!!! I can even wait till you hand deliver to me in Chicago. Back to tsuba topic........... the oni tsuba of T.................... last count there's three collectors with the same tsuba in their collection. Are these things " mass produced " ? I know tsuba are not one of a kind but what's the chance of having three collectors having the same thing ? Another example is the hawk on pine tree looking down at two, sometimes three chidori ......... I see that examples coming up in auctions all the time. Some mumei, some signed but different mei. I happen to have one acquired years ago.......... mine have " different " patina treatment on various part of the brass, eg. the breast of the hwak is " silverish "......... http://www.esnips.com/web/tsuba?docsPage=18#files klick on brass hawk.jpg comments on these late edo " mono " ? milt the ronin Quote
roninjje Posted February 18, 2007 Author Report Posted February 18, 2007 yeah, I'll bring you a copy, I'll even autograph it. :D What suprised me about Thierry's was the back, being concave, onto the monkey/shikami, I wonder if these became tourist pieces when Japan was opened up? I have seen various examples of your's as well. BTW, I have deceided to stick to the koi I have in my pond and move on to demons and devils. Quote
Guido Posted February 18, 2007 Report Posted February 18, 2007 roninjje said: What suprised me about Thierry's was the back, being concave, ... That's called "Wangata", not extremely uncommon, and often seen on Satsuma swords. Quote
Bungo Posted February 18, 2007 Report Posted February 18, 2007 Guido Schiller said: Actually neither "roninjje's" (so much for forum policies) nor Thierry's Tsuba show an Oni (yes, I noticed that the description of Thierry's Tsuba in the Japanese book states "Oni face 鬼面", but nonetheless). It's not an Oni 鬼 but a Shikami 魅. They are easily distinguished by their horns. Oni have square heads with small, conical, stubby horns. The Shikami has the face of a Shishi, and the ears and horns of an oxen, and is frequently depicted without a lower jaw (but not always). One will only see the head of a Shikami, but never the body. Shikami are sometimes described as Onimen Shishi 鬼面獅子, "devil/demon-faced lions". From the Nambokuchô period on, the Shikami was one of the favorite subjects of Maedate, like on my mid-Edo period Gosoku: take a look see at my armour with the shikami............ http://www.esnips.com/web/zuikan milt the ronin Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.