oni tsuba

[roninjje]

Well, here is a tsuba, and what I would consider its match that was discussed on another thread. Milt, John, and Barry all discussed this tsuba on the right, formerly owned by Jim Gilbert. Please take alook at the image showing front and reverse of both. Now, what school are these? Mito? Any background. They would look awesome on a daisho

[Bungo]

wow, the right one is the " sho " ?

 

you " robbed ' me...........

 

 

hahhahahahaaaaa, very very nice.............now go klick on my e-snips folders and buy some more !!

 

By the way, I added a lot of painting pics in the two painting folders.......there's one hand scroll now mounted as kakemono that I like particularly.

 

milt the ronin

[roninjje]

I should have bought them both from Barry when I had the chance at Tampa last year. But I also bought a Yoshimichi katana in goto mounts and a sukashi chrysanthamum tsuba to match.

 

I am looking for arrow bundle menuki, and oni f/k to put a daisho together. Don't worry milt a day does not go by that I don't look at your stuff...

[Thierry BERNARD]

hi

 

here some beautiful oni menuki

 

http://www.espace4.com/antiquites-japon ... es-13.html

[roninjje]

Yes those are definitely nice. Are they for sale or display only? I am afraid I do not speak French.

[Thierry BERNARD]

hi

 

they are for sell but I do not know if they are still available

 

regards

[roninjje]

Thanks Thierry, I will inquire.

[Thierry BERNARD]

i think they speak english but if you need help tell me

 

regards

[roninjje]

will do, thanks for your help. I already sent them an e-mail, but given the time change they won't be in for a while.

[Bungo]

Thierry

just notice your " avitar " ( spelling ? ).............. some one was talking about that exact tsuba on another list.

Do you have the tsuba ? If so , can you post some latger pics ?

 

thanks,merci, danke.............

 

Milt the ronin

[Thierry BERNARD]

hi

 

yes it's one of my tsuba the same as the one scan from book Hyaku-tan [100 Tsuba] Vol2

 

translation

 

1.On a lucky day in August of 1866

 

2.Myochin Katsumi Ki Munenaga

 

3.(made this for/on request of)Sakamoto Naokata.

 

Maybe this is the Tsuba described by Haynes at H06165!?

 

Haynes:retainer of the Yamanouchi Daimyo of Tosa.Student of the first Akasaka Tadanori H 09135.

[Guido]

Actually neither "roninjje's" (so much for forum policies) nor Thierry's Tsuba show an Oni (yes, I noticed that the description of Thierry's Tsuba in the Japanese book states "Oni face 鬼面", but nonetheless). It's not an Oni 鬼 but a Shikami 魅.

 

They are easily distinguished by their horns. Oni have square heads with small, conical, stubby horns. The Shikami has the face of a Shishi, and the ears and horns of an oxen, and is frequently depicted without a lower jaw (but not always). One will only see the head of a Shikami, but never the body. Shikami are sometimes described as Onimen Shishi 鬼面獅子, "devil/demon-faced lions".

 

From the Nambokuchô period on, the Shikami was one of the favorite subjects of Maedate, like on my mid-Edo period Gosoku:

[roninjje]

Thanks for the information on the type of demon, I thought it looked more like a shishi than anything.

 

btw - added my signature - sorry about that

[Brian]

Is it John?

Good to have you here..I have caught your posts on the Yahoo group. (If I am not mistaking people) and have caught some of your eBay auctions.

 

Regards,

Brian

[roninjje]

Hi Brian, yep, John - or J.J. either is good.

Actually if you look my name is on the avatar but you need a friggin microscope to see it.

[Thierry BERNARD]

i have this oni tsuba signed Nara Masayoshi, some informations on it?

[Bungo]

I know a JJ of Dinomite fame in the project, the sister was a babe though.....................

[Rich T]

This sort of information is alway valuable.

 

So this is our new friend Shikami ?

 

http://www.bidders.co.jp/item/82521851

 

Best

 

Rich

[Guido]

So this is our new friend Shikami ?

Nope, that's an Oni: short horns,hairy body, and the telltale claws and tiger fur pants. The face, however, resembles a Shikami, same as the last Tsuba Thierry posted.

 

Well, as with many things Japanese, the lines get blurry sometimes. Add to that the artistic license, and you have food for dicussion for the next couple of decades ... ain't it fun?

[Guido]

BTW: kind of a fishy Kanteishô, who's the 日本美術刀剣研究保存会? And issued Meij 13, that's 1880, right?

[Rich T]

Thanks for the correction mate, yes, it makes more sense now. I looked briefly at the paper, but thought it may have been an attribution from a shop or club, but with that date on it ???, a fake ?.

 

Rich

[Nobody]

BTW: kind of a fishy Kanteishô, who's the 日本美術刀剣研究保存会? And issued Meij 13, that's 1880, right?

The paper explains that Nobuyoshi (信盧) is its maker and he was a student of Masayoshi (政盧). And Nobuyoshi died in Meiji 13 (1880).

[Guido]

Oops, missed the 没 after the date ...

 

Mental note to myself: engage brain before typing, make sure to read *all* that is written!

 

Anyhow, the question of what kind of papers we're dealing with still remains. Anyone?

[Guido]

btw - added my signature - sorry about that

Thanks for doing that - it makes replying to posts much easier.

 

Sorry for always being so anal when it comes to real names (my philosophy: if you have to say something, be man/woman enough to identify yourself), but I think "kendoman" kind of made my point much better than I could ever had ...

[roninjje]

Guido, that's okay, I was always a lurker on this board and finally decided to contribute, and no Milt, not the J.J. of dynamite fame. My name is John but I publish under J.J. Eliyas - read my book, give me royalties

[Bungo]

:D JJ, , sounds lot better than the Oni/Koi dude ( you are the koi dude too if I am not mistaken ).

 

you ought to send me your book, autographed and all for free ( for taking advantage of my good nature ) !!!!! I can even wait till you hand deliver to me in Chicago.

 

Back to tsuba topic...........

 

the oni tsuba of T....................

last count there's three collectors with the same tsuba in their collection.

Are these things " mass produced " ? I know tsuba are not one of a kind but what's the chance of having three collectors having the same thing ?

 

Another example is the hawk on pine tree looking down at two, sometimes three chidori ......... I see that examples coming up in auctions all the time. Some mumei, some signed but different mei.

I happen to have one acquired years ago.......... mine have " different " patina treatment on various part of the brass, eg. the breast of the hwak is " silverish ".........

 

http://www.esnips.com/web/tsuba?docsPage=18#files

klick on brass hawk.jpg

 

comments on these late edo " mono " ?

 

milt the ronin

[roninjje]

yeah, I'll bring you a copy, I'll even autograph it. :D

 

What suprised me about Thierry's was the back, being concave, onto the monkey/shikami, I wonder if these became tourist pieces when Japan was opened up? I have seen various examples of your's as well.

 

BTW, I have deceided to stick to the koi I have in my pond and move on to demons and devils.

[Guido]

What suprised me about Thierry's was the back, being concave, ...

That's called "Wangata", not extremely uncommon, and often seen on Satsuma swords.

[Bungo]

Actually neither "roninjje's" (so much for forum policies) nor Thierry's Tsuba show an Oni (yes, I noticed that the description of Thierry's Tsuba in the Japanese book states "Oni face 鬼面", but nonetheless). It's not an Oni 鬼 but a Shikami 魅.

 

They are easily distinguished by their horns. Oni have square heads with small, conical, stubby horns. The Shikami has the face of a Shishi, and the ears and horns of an oxen, and is frequently depicted without a lower jaw (but not always). One will only see the head of a Shikami, but never the body. Shikami are sometimes described as Onimen Shishi 鬼面獅子, "devil/demon-faced lions".

 

From the Nambokuchô period on, the Shikami was one of the favorite subjects of Maedate, like on my mid-Edo period Gosoku:

 

 

 

 

take a look see at my armour with the shikami............

 

http://www.esnips.com/web/zuikan

 

milt the ronin