Tekkan or tetsuken with kurikata

[estcrh]

In a recent thread the subject of the possible reasons for a sword like object having a kurikata came up, I can not shed any light on the topic except to show that this was not that uncommon.

Here is a picture of a tekkan that just came up for sale in Japan, you can clearly see that it has a kurikata even though it is just a solid iron truncheon type weapon.

 

 

 

[sanjuro]

As you say there are a number of these weapons of various configurations with kurikata. The majority seem to have one thing in common, and that is they are trying very hard to look swordlike. Not an unreasonable measure since swords and tanto were fairly common. Given that the dress of the times didnt really lend itself well to concealment of weapons of any bulk or weight and that the only place one could wear a weapon - any weapon, was thrust through the obi, then a kurikata apart from being a convention, does function well to hold the weapon in the obi. I guess its a thing of convenience as much as anything else. I rather go for the most obvious reasons for such things as opposed to an exotic explanation. :D The one you illustrate here reminds me of a cha to, except for the fact that it is made of iron of course. It also bears an uncanny resemblance to a koshirae I have. Where is it for sale and how much?

[estcrh]

Keith, the tekkan is listed on yahoo Japan and its around $100 right now>> http://page5.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/e108362050

 

Speaking of chato, here are a couple with kurikata.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

though it is just a solid iron truncheon type weapon.

 

Are you sure it's a practical weapon ?

 

A weapon shouldn't have such a slippy (and uncomfortable) tsuka.

 

BTW these Chato with kurikata strenghten in me the feeling that the sword that started all these discussions in another thread and supposedly intended for Kendo was instead intended for theatrical purposes rather than practical ones...

[sanjuro]

It occurs to me that in the case of the item illustrated here, that it may have originally had an ito binding or perhaps a continuous thread or thong binding in the manner of many early edo koshirae. The flared saya style was at the time quite popular among the bravos of the day, and that style of binding coincided with this saya style. Having proposed that possibility of course, it is entirely speculative. Truncheons and clublike weapons enjoyed popularity among the police forces of the time, and such a clublike instrument would surely have functioned as a blocking weapon in a scuffle with someone armed with a sword. I shudder to think about the edge damage it would inflict on a blade. However, this particular specimen you'll have to admit, even bound and perhaps lacquered to resemble a sword koshirae, would have little value as a purely decorative piece.

 

We have in the previous thread speculated broadly about such items and we have admittedly differing viewpoints. None the less, it is instructive to discuss such things and compare our theories. :D

 

An interesting little sidelight here regarding the chato. Have you noticed they are either decorated unlike a sword or are not a truly convincing representation of a koshirae? It was considered proper that whilst carrying a sword like object to the cha no yu ceremony was the right of the samurai, that the object not resemble too closely a true koshirae. It was after all a badge of rank for the most part, and a sword had no place at the tea ceremony other than as a mark of rank.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

It occurs to me that in the case of the item illustrated here, that it may have originally had an ito binding or perhaps a continuous thread or thong binding in the manner of many early edo koshirae.

 

Were should the ito be fixed to the fittings / tsuka ?

[estcrh]

 

Are you sure it's a practical weapon ?

 

A weapon shouldn't have such a slippy (and uncomfortable) tsuka

At a weight of about 830g. it would be a deadly weapon in the right hands. Quite possibly at one time it may have had a leather or ray skin covering on the handle. These "uchimono" while very common are understudied.

 

 

 

 

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Last pic answers my question on tsuka binding.

[sanjuro]

Hi Carlo.

 

A continuous cord wrapping actually fixes itself to the hilt, the ends being trapped beneath the lashing itself at one end and similarly at the other by means of a running loop beneath the binding through which the last turn of the binding is passed , then the end is pulled beneath the binding and released there by the running loop. One of my bokken has a silk thread lashed tsuka and it was done in this way without glue.

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

A bokken is a perfect weapon and its tsuka is totally slick, jo an bo too.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Right, right.

[estcrh]

Some more examples. A small tetsubo, a tanbo, tekkan and a iron bar with some file marks on the tsuka.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sanjuro]

Jacques has a point. However, bokken with bound tsuka are not uncommon and indeed have been used for practice throughout history. After an hour or so of kenjutsu believe me, the tsuka of a bokken becomes quite slick with sweat. Kata is a different matter of course. The practitioner of kata is operating in a controlled and choreographed environment. Free form kenjutsu practice is a little more active. The point is taken however, and Jacques is fundamentally correct.

[kusunokimasahige]

Would samurai wear this as a weapon or would Edo period traders and bankers have such weapons.

 

I know that sometimes samurai had to sell their swords out of poverty, so it comes across that maybe

it also could be worn to disguise the fact you did not have a sword anymore, but did have a weapon.

 

Any light on this ?

 

KM

[Toryu2020]

Gentlemen -

I believe these are not so much weapons but more like a doctors bokuto. Made to resemble a sword but not to violate laws proscribing commoners from carrying them. I am just talking about the sword like objects not all the iron truncheons. Walking in the dark and dangerous streets of edo something like this would present just enough of a silhouette to put off would-be robbers. the addition of the sageo makes the illusion complete.

 

I have a kabuto-wari in a wakizashi koshirae, again just my belief, but I have always believed that it presented the outward appearance of a sword but should the wearer be questioned it was "only a harmless skull busting stick of iron officer..."

-t

[estcrh]

Would samurai wear this as a weapon or would Edo period traders and bankers have such weapons.

Unfortunately there is not much research on these types of iron bar weapons which include tessen fans and hachiwari, there was a large variety of styles and shapes, from very basic to elaborate so it would seem that not just poor people used these. I do see these kinds of weapons being used in old prints from time to time and samurai police were known to use non lethal weapons to apprehend criminals but there does seem to be a lot of them. Maybe some here has additional information.

[estcrh]

Gentlemen -

I believe these are not so much weapons but more like a doctors bokuto. Made to resemble a sword but not to violate laws proscribing commoners from carrying them. I am just talking about the sword like objects not all the iron truncheons.

Are you talking about the iron sword like objects also or just the wood ones? The small wood ones I have seen have been described as either doctors swords or tea swords, I have never seen an iron one described that way.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

I believe these are not so much weapons but more like a doctors bokuto.

 

Makes sense... Otherwise why to invent Jutte and the like ?

Maybe they had a double-function, primarly as rank symbol (hence the resemblance to a sword) and being also an extrema ratio weapon ?

[sanjuro]

Gentlemen.

 

Firstly, let us not confuse the functions of a so called doctors sword, which functioned as a mark of rank as equal to one of samurai birth but was not intended as a weapon. Many of these carried within the koshirae, items such as one would find in an inroe, or actual surgical instruments, and a chato. A chato was also a mark of rank but only for the bushi (originally) and was only used as a substitute effigy of the real weapon, worn in the belt at the cha no yu. Chato were only made of wood, never iron, and not intended to be used for any violence at all.

The various truncheons etc were police and civilian weapons, shaped sometimes like a sword to convey the semblance of rank perhaps or more likely to be more acceptable and less socially remarkable or unusual than a crude club or truncheon.

 

A tessen or iron fan was often carried by men of rank and also lesser samurai as a defensive device. There are sword techniques involving the use of a tessen taught in ryu even today, although they are now something of a novelty, and tessen jutsu (My term, because I forget the correct name) was practiced by various ryuha as early as the Muromachi period.

 

You cannot simply lump all these various weapons under a common heading and make a lot of assumptions about their provenance and purpose, or dismiss them with generalities. Firstly, one must know for whom they were intended and what purpose they may have served for that person. In many instances we are guessing at both of these and also forgetting that some of these things may also have been made as nothing more than export items to satisfy the demands and appetites of a European market that during the Post Edo period, was insatiably fond of the exotic items of the orient.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

The various truncheons etc were police and civilian weapons, shaped sometimes like a sword to convey the semblance of rank perhaps or more likely to be more acceptable and less socially remarkable or unusual than a crude club or truncheon.

...omissis... forgetting that some of these things may also have been made as nothing more than export items to satisfy the demands and appetites of a European market that during the Post Edo period, was insatiablebly fond of the exotic items of the orient.

 

Agreed. This is what I was aiming to regarding this item. Semblance of rank + occasional self

defence weapon for civilian, as Jutte (with same practical purpose) was linked to the rank of

policeman, but the export item is a possibility as well.

[sanjuro]

Something to consider:

We have on page one of this thread an iron truncheon that has a same' wrapped hilt. Same' is extremely abrasive to the naked hand. Ergo this is a weapon primarily of decoration, and possibly an export item of the meiji period. My reasoning here has to do with the swords of the Heian and Muromachi period, many of which were same hilted without ito. This use of same' alone on a tsuka coincided with the times when a samurai went mounted and invariably was an archer. An archer wears a doeskin glove on the right hand. The combination of same tsuka and doeskin glove gave the warrior a secure grip on his tachi. As the doeskin glove was slowly abandoned so came the rise in popularity of the silk ito we are familiar with, and the glove became a half glove that covered only the finger(s) and thumb that pulled the bowstring. The reason for the change was the abrasive nature of same' on the naked hand.

I dont want to ramble on with my reasoning, but the comparative use of an unwrapped same hilt on a truncheon would submit the wielder of such a weapon to a very sore palm and fingers in a very short time. Some small incongruities such as this and on the other hand the lack of binding of any kind on iron bar like weaponry, which would make for a very difficult grip, lead me to believe that perhaps many such weapons were not made for serious use at all. If this is the case then what were they for? The conclusions already arrived at would seem to explain at least some of the function of those items inappropriately finished.

[estcrh]

Not the old ''export tourist item" explanation of objects that we just do not understand again.....If they were export items I guess they did not sell very well as they are rarely seen for sale outside of Japan, almost all the ones I see are coming from Japan. Plus many of them are worn or even extremely worn and rather plain. I think there are better explanations. Personal defense was as popular in Japan during the Edo period and as it is today in America, maybe were you live its different. Its not unusual at all were I live for people to carry collapsible batons, pepper spray, stun guns, real guns, knives, canes etc for personal defense. If you were going to sell something to a tourist wouldnt you dress it up a bit?

[sanjuro]

Not the old ''export tourist item" explanation of objects that we just do not understand again.....

 

I expound a personal theory not some tired old dogma, hence the explanation I carefully included with my post. I was I believe fairly clear in not including all of the items shown but merely used one to illustrate a point and pose an explanation for SOME items. You really should read the posts thoroughly before you jump all over them in your haste to disagree. I have not made any sweeping statements or generalities concerning these items because just like you, I dont really know.

[estcrh]

Keith I am not jumping on anyone, I am also just making some personal observations and statements. ( which get jumped on quite often also :D ) Many jutte have same' on the tsuka, its not unusual at all. I have a jutte with a same' grip and a tanto also, its not that abrasive really and if it helps keep a weapon in your hand for the few minutes you would actually be using it then I suppose one could overlook any discomfort. One thing that is not seen when it comes to armor are the gloves. Soft leather gloves were available and worn, here is a picture of a pair of armor gloves. I once saw an antique kusarigama for sale in Japan that came with a pair of old heavy rough leather gloves.

 

 

 

 

[kusunokimasahige]

I had not seen egawa gloves yet, i thought most gloves were of silk !

 

Nice !

 

KM

[sanjuro]

Eric

 

Have you noticed that the same hilts of weaponry that was used with the naked hand is often cut back or filed down to remove the sharp points? Same', - crude same', was used in strips on wooden slats as a wood file in Japan. When I said it was abrasive it was from personal experience. I once had a few swings with a sword mounted with a same tsuka without ito..... I dont have particularly soft hands, but the damn thing removed a couple of layers of epidermis from my first three fingers..... Yet with a doeskin glove on, it was very comfortable.

Be that as it may, as a general rule, the presence of same on any hilt of these iron skull mashers would to me indicate a decorative or deterrent rather than a severely practical purpose.

 

Nice gloves..... As you say, you dont see them too often.

[estcrh]

I had not seen egawa gloves yet, i thought most gloves were of silk !

 

Nice !

 

KM

They are very rarely seen or even pictured, I do not think many survived in good shape due to wear. This goes for under armor garments in general, these items just got worn out due to friction.

[estcrh]

Keith, I think the experience you mention with practice type of weapons is the reason you do not see same' used on them. I was thinking more of a weapon that was worn and only used in an emergency.

 

Here are another pair of rarely seen gloves made from some kind of cotton like cloth and a picture from the Return of the Samurai exhibit showing a pair of "Yugake" being worn.

 

 

[Jamie]

Keith,

 

I agree somewhat with your assertations, especiall about Same being used on Tachi with gloves. Swords though were meant to be used in Battle, and a few periods obviously more than others. But I think most of these weapons were probably not meant to be used all the time. So maybe raw Same was used in some cases as these weapons had a more limited use than swords. I am less studied on these types of weapons so I certainly don't "know". Just tossing thoughts as I read the thread.

Interesting topic here.

[estcrh]

A few excellent books on the subject of "uchimono" and related subjects.

 

#1. Classical weaponry of Japan: special weapons and tactics of the martial arts, Serge Mol, Kodansha International, 2003

 

Serge Mol's earlier volume, Classical Fighting Arts of Japan: A Complete Guide to Koryu Jujutsu is already destined to become a classic.

Classical Weaponry of Japan is a continuation of that first book. It is an in-depth study of more than a hundred exotic special weapons and associated weapon techniques used by various koryu jujutsu schools.

Each weapon will be shown in photographs accompanied by detailed explanations about history and usage. The book treats 100 weapons in depth and refers to 300. Where possible, photos will be included of present-day Japanese grandmasters demonstrating the way the weapons were used.

In addition to the weapons, the author introduces and explains the characteristics of about twenty special weapon arts that were developed around these weapons. The relation of these special weapon arts to other fighting systems is also discussed.

Many of the weapons included in this work once belonged to secret sections within the secret curriculum of ancient jujutsu schools or weapons schools. Certain weapons that remained hidden for centuries have recently been uncovered; Mol includes photos of them and offers ideas about how they may have been used and even shows grandmasters demonstrating their use. Others that became well known around the world, such as the famous shuriken or kusarigama, are discussed in new ways here. However, the majority of the weapons treated in Classical Weaponry of Japan are not widely known, and so will be of great interest to practitioners of martial arts and weapon

collectors or enthusiasts.

The book is heavily illustrated, with rare photos of weapons, techniques, ancient text scrolls, illustrated scrolls, and woodblock prints. It will have a foreword by Tanaka Fumon and one by another grandmaster who is an expert in the field of secret weapons.

Classical Weaponry of Japan will be the first book in any of the major Western languages to comprehensively treat the special or secret weapons that are still known today.

 

 

You can read the chapter on these types of weapons here> http://books.google.com/books?id=ZzIXkF ... no&f=false

 

#2. Taiho-jutsu: law and order in the age of the samurai, Don Cunningham, Tuttle Publishing, 2004

 

Secret Weapons of Jujutsu is the first book in English that deals with the full array of small hand weapons used by the Japanese samurai and constabulary. This volume includes a history of the weapons and discussions of hibuki (concealed weapons), improvised weapons, and traditional battlefield weapons such as: kansashi (a long, pointed metal hairpin worn by men and women) kokai and kudzuka (small utility knives) shoku (fire ax) shakuhachi (a bamboo flute -- a particular favorite of monks) yawara (short wooden rod) manriki-gusari (weighted chain) suntetsu (short iron bar) lessen (iron war fan). Cunningham discusses the weapons and demonstrates their use, in a series of clear, easy to follow photographs. Also included are historical photographs, as well as reproductions of paintings and line drawings, of these weapons and their bearers. Book jacket.

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=g5BP7D ... ono&f=true

 

#2. Secret Weapons of Jujutsu, Don Cunningham, Tuttle Publishing, 2002

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=GMsLAA ... CE4Q6AEwBw

 

#3. Samurai Weapons: Tools of the Warrior, Don Cunningham, Tuttle Publishing, 2008

 

Weapons, particularly bladed ones such as swords, are enjoying a renaissance of interest from every source, from collectors to laypeople. The samurai, a glorified figure in Japan and the West, employed a variety of weapons, not least of which was the sword. Samurai Weapons details how and why their arsenal included not only the sword of popular lore, but also a variety of other tools, including concealed weapons, improvised fighting tools, fans, truncheons and pole arms.

 

The author succinctly describes the society of Japan, how and why the samurai class arose, and the place that samurai held in that society through the centuries, focusing in particular on the various weaponry, how these weapons were used and why. In addition, Samurai Weapons highlights the influence these weapons and fighting styles had on many different schools of Japanese martial arts.

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=tyLNGA ... CEkQ6AEwBw

 

#4. Classical fighting arts of Japan: a complete guide to koryū jūjutsu, Serge Mol, Kodansha International, 2001

 

The fierceness of the Japanese warrior and his fighting arts has fascinated Westerners since Europeans first came into contact with Japan more than 450 years ago. Classical Fighting Arts of Japan: A Complete Guide to Koryu Jujutsu is the first comprehensive English-language book on traditional jujutsu.

Author Serge Mol-working almost exclusively from original Japanese source materials-vividly outlines the history of the close-quarter fighting methods that warriors developed not only to prove themselves on the battlefield and in daily life, but also to the constantly ready to defend their feudal lords.

A great number of jujutsu styles and techniques-armed and unarmed-have existed over the centuries, and many of the classical weapon schools also instructed in the use of jujutsu. The Classical Fighting Arts of Japan expertly guides readers through the rise and development of many of the major schools.

The classical martial arts as practiced in the ancient ryuha were deeply interwoven. For this reason, this definitive guide to koryu jujutsu will not only be invaluable to practioners of traditional and modern jujutsu, but will be of great interest to enthusiasts of modern budo such as judo, aikido, kendo, and iaido.

Mol explores the historical and cultural factors that helped shape jujutsu and the martial arts in general. He offers a detailed look at individual jujutsu ryuha, giving details on the school's history (where possible including illustrations of their founders and photos of ancient manuscripts).

This book is richly illustrated with numerous photographs of rare documents and with many photos of exponents demonstration techniques, many of which have never before been shown outside Japan. In addition to his extensive research in original source material, Mol had regular access in conversation, over the course of years, to the insights of the grandmasters of several of the most important jujutsu schools that remain active today.

Classical Fighting Arts of Japan will be a welcome addition to the personal collection of every serious student of Japanese martial arts.

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=K-c2Lw ... CDYQ6AEwAg