Less Ignorant Inquiry

[lazyasian]

I would like to start by saying I am a beginner when it comes to Nihonto. A week ago I just inherited a katana from my Grandfather and since have been trying to absorb all the information I possibly can but I am still pathetically green. I am truly sorry for my peppering of this forum but please allow my one last topic post that hopefully at least partially hides my incompetence and articulates what I wish to know a little better. Thank you to all you have helped me learn as much as I have.

 

A little information about the sword: It is a daito with the nagasa being about 30 inches. The Nakago sadly does not have a mei. I have posted pictures of both sides. I have been told the blade is likely Shinshinto by some and earlier Shinto by others. The Tsuba I believe is cast iron and has a wood grained pattern. The kashira and fuchi are decorated with a dragon pattern and are dark in color apart from gold colored eyes. The Fuchi is signed and some on this forum have kindly translated it as being signed by soten soheishi. I have done some research and it sounds like most signed in this manner were not done by either the father or son but by either students of the soten school or merely those who wished to increase the value of there work. The Menuki to me appear to be two shishi temple dogs. The saya is reddish brown and the ito is black.

 

What I want to know:

 

1. Age of the sword. Shinshinto? Shinto? Other thoughts?

2. Forging location? Barry from sword international has kindly responded to my emails suggesting the blade to him resembles the Bizen region do people agree?

3. Forging school? Can anyone tell without a mei more about the school of forging that this blade is from?

4. More on the fittings and signature? Can anyone by the poor pictures I have taken, tell if it is possible that it is Soten Soheishi’s work or at least from his school? To me it doesn’t quite resemble the Soten work I see online but does anyone know the Soten school well? Basically is it a gi-mei?

5. Info on the tsuba? I have been told it is not Soten work and was likely done in the late edo period. Thoughts? Anymore info?

6. Am I correct in the menuki being shishi? Any significance of this? Other info on the Menuki?

7. Any info regarding the Saya?

8. Value? (apparently from my previous posts putting this question sounds like I am merely interested in pawning the sword I am not! Though this sword is priceless to me is it so weird to get a little curious about these matters when one just gets such an elegant work? and on a practical note Insurance is important. feel free to not answer this if you don’t believe me but it will NOT be sold!)

9. speaking on insurance I have never Insured an object of this nature any recommendations?

10. I have been so kindly told by one that if it is so precious to me I shouldn’t be posting on this forum but rather do my own research. I have been looking at many websites for information and thought this could be a wonderful resource. Still he is right I do need to learn more on my own so does anyone have any books or other resources on Shinto or Shinshinto swords they recommend?

11. Displaying? I have read it is best to keep the sword in its bag and store it in a dry place. It has been for many years one site recommended palonia wood boxes. If this is what is best for the blade I shall continue to do this. Still, I think it is a shame to keep this work tucked away is there a way to safely display a sword without being detrimental to its health?

12. Sword care? I admit when I got it I knew nothing and in my excitement and haste I placed it on the tile to take a picture. This elicited a rather nasty comment I apologize for my ignorance. I know now to not even lay the sword on a hard surface, no touching the blade with the hand, and have been looking at this http://www.Japanese-swords.com/pages/handling.htm still any other major thing I should know?

 

One suggested that the fact that this is a sword passed down through my family since WWII and replaced one that was destroyed during the internment of the Japanese Americans is just “sentimental ****”. I believe caring for a sword is more then just knowing how to handle it but even if it is sappy cherishing its tradition and history which is why I am perhaps over eager to learn everything I can. Please help me do this.

 

Thank you everyone

 

Cory

[lazyasian]

fittings pictures

[cabowen]

  lazyasian said:

What I want to know:

 

1. Age of the sword. Shinshinto? Shinto? Other thoughts?

2. Forging location? Barry from sword international has kindly responded to my emails suggesting the blade to him resembles the Bizen region do people agree?

3. Forging school? Can anyone tell without a mei more about the school of forging that this blade is from?

4. More on the fittings and signature? Can anyone by the poor pictures I have taken, tell if it is possible that it is Soten Soheishi’s work or at least from his school? To me it doesn’t quite resemble the Soten work I see online but does anyone know the Soten school well? Basically is it a gi-mei?

5. Info on the tsuba? I have been told it is not Soten work and was likely done in the late edo period. Thoughts? Anymore info?

6. Am I correct in the menuki being shishi? Any significance of this? Other info on the Menuki?

7. Any info regarding the Saya?

 

 

I sympathize and understand your desire to learn more about the sword, so I am going to try and say this as delicately as possible: you can not reasonably expect people to answer these questions from photos on the internet with any degree of certainty; to think otherwise is, well, ignorant...

 

You have been advised both publicly and privately to submit the sword to Japanese experts at one of the upcoming shinsa. They will answer these questions with a degree of expertise you simply will not get from Jimbo, Willie, or any other internet sword slick who provides you with their expert opinion from your photos. You are wasting your time and kidding yourself by pursuing this further on line. If you seriously want to learn more, and receive information that is almost certainly correct, submit the sword to shinsa.

 

 

  lazyasian said:

11. Displaying? ....Still, I think it is a shame to keep this work tucked away is there a way to safely display a sword without being detrimental to its health?

 

No. It belongs in a bag as it has been. That is the reason it is still in decent condition and you still have all your fingers. Displayed swords are dangerous, period, and not just to people but to the sword itself.

 

  lazyasian said:

12. Sword care? I admit when I got it I knew nothing and in my excitement and haste I placed it on the tile to take a picture. This elicited a rather nasty comment I apologize for my ignorance. I know now to not even lay the sword on a hard surface, no touching the blade with the hand, and have been looking at this http://www.Japanese-swords.com/pages/handling.htm still any other major thing I should know?

 

Keep in somewhere safe, dry, in a bag. Oil it per the instructions on the jss-us site. Handle it as little as possible, don't touch the blade with your fingers, don't rub or clean it with anything other than what is recommended on the jss-us site. It wouldn't hurt to handle the fittings with cotton gloves on. Did I mention to handle it as little as possible?

[Mark]

hard to say value from a few pictures. If forced to guess i would say $1500-3500. I do not think insurnace is that important, the sword has sentimental value so there is not reason to replace it, i think it better to spend the money securing it, maybe buy a fire resistant gun safe and mount it to the floor or wall, that way you have little chance of it being stolen or damaged.

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Cory,

The menuki are shishi and the tsuba isn't cast; it is carved. I think Shinshinto is more likely than Shinto but I also agree with Chris; only a decent shinsa will give you the answer.

Grey

[bone]

All I can help you with is the list of books. And I can only help you with that thanks to this site. There is a FAQ link at the top of the page. (There are two. The one I mean is at the very top.) A lot of important info there.

 

There is the shinsa in Minneapolis in october. Only 8 months to go! I'll be sending one there. You really should too.

Good luck!

[estcrh]

Cory, if you are interested, there are forum members who will take your blade to shinsa for you if you can not attend. I also have a sword or two that I would like to take.

[Jamie]

Hi Cory,

 

Cleaning, handling,etiquette:

http://www.nbthk-ab.org/Etiquette.htm

 

 

As most others have said shinsa will reveal the answers you seek. And being mumei it likely won't get a pink slip. With the NTHK (october shinsa) even if a blade fails to paper they suggest what they think it to be. So you will get those answers. In the meantime start with sword care and a few books to study.

 

Here are three very good ones to start with. After reading these you may have an answer or two, or more questions. Either way, that's a good thing.

 

The connoisseurs book of Japanese swords

http://www.amazon.com/Connoisseurs-Book ... 4770020716

The Samurai Sword

http://www.amazon.com/Samurai-Sword-Han ... 0804805091

The Japanese sword

http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Sword-Co ... 0870115626

 

Best of luck

Jamie

[cabowen]

  estcrh said:

Cory, if you are interested, there are forum members who will take your blade to shinsa for you if you can not attend. I also have a sword or two that I would like to take.

 

We are also offering a service to submit items for those that can not attend for $75 per item.

[Curgan]

  cabowen said:

We are also offering a service to submit items for those that can not attend for $75 per item.

 

I 'd go with it Cory, as Cris is a most reliable professional and this is a most tempting offer... or even better visit a sword show and shinsa myself!

 

On the other hand, ofter lurking both threads, I 'd like to encourage you on your endeavour for knowledge and urge you not to get discouraged by an occasional harsh reply or two. It's all part of the initiation process :D For some this is just how they react towards everybody. The community as a whole is generaly very, very, very supportive, although sometimes they can be bitter. In the cases it is not an educational trick, many a folk have tried luring them into evaluations in order to sell their swords and they have seen more sword mishandling than they can take. As you 'll experience -if you have the patience to bother enough- the more your knowledge increases the less you 'll tolerate it too...

 

As you might have understood from my post I am a newbie that managed to survive the first cold shower...

[Peter Bleed]

Cory,

 

Great thread so far. Thanx. I want to start by being serious.

This is a serious sword. It deserves being treated seriously. To heighten that point please let me be ironic.

1) Oh crap, another one of these! You know people give me these things all the time. Send me an private email, I'll tell you about it. Don't beleive those other guys

OR

2). Go ahead son, relax, just put the needle in your arm.

More seriously, Cory, you have been blessed. Enjoy this sword. learn from it. Talk to others, find more(!), join groups, buy books. Welcome aboard!

Peter

[lazyasian]

Thank you everyone eventually I will definitely have the sword taken to a shinsa.

 

Thank you very much Chris for your information and offer both public and private. I will sincerely consider your generous offer to take my sword to your planned shinsa.

 

Still, I would prefer to attend one myself. Firstly I think it would be a rewarding and interesting experience and secondly I admit I prefer not shipping it to someone I don't know personally.

 

Anyone have a general idea of how often a shinsa actually comes to the US?

Has anyone heard of one ever coming to the mountain west?

I have seen some in California which is a little closer than Minneapolis how often do they occur?

Finally I have some family and friends in Japan and hope to be fortunate enough to go back there within a few years has anyone tried to bring/or ship a sword to Japan and submit it directly to a NBTHK or another shinsa in Japan and have information on that? From the web it seems transporting, customs, police registration, etc is quite a daunting task.

 

Thanks for all the help

Cory

[cabowen]

  lazyasian said:

Thank you everyone eventually I will definitely have the sword taken to a shinsa.

 

Thank you very much Chris for your information and offer both public and private. I will sincerely consider your generous offer to take my sword to your planned shinsa.

 

Still, I would prefer to attend one myself. Firstly I think it would be a rewarding and interesting experience and secondly I admit I prefer not shipping it to someone I don't know personally.

 

Anyone have a general idea of how often a shinsa actually comes to the US?

Has anyone heard of one ever coming to the mountain west?

I have seen some in California which is a little closer than Minneapolis how often do they occur?

 

Finally I have some family and friends in Japan and hope to be fortunate enough to go back there within a few years has anyone tried to bring/or ship a sword to Japan and submit it directly to a NBTHK or another shinsa in Japan and have information on that? From the web it seems transporting, customs, police registration, etc is quite a daunting task.

 

Thanks for all the help

Cory

 

There are two groups that come to the US. The group we bring over comes about every 6-7 years. The other group more often. They have been on the west coast, Chicago, and east coast in the past but none in mountain west. Doubt they ever will as there isn't a sword show there....

 

Bringing the sword yourself into Japan, through the registration process, NBTHK shinsa process, and export process for someone who has never done it....well, if you speak fluent Japanese, it will be extremely daunting. If you do not, it will be near impossible. How do I know? Because I have done it a hundred times or more...

 

If you want NBTHK shinsa, you will be much better off shipping the sword through an agent. Be advised that NBTHK shinsa will cost at a minimum 3-4 times what the NTHK stateside shinsa costs.

[Stephen]

  Quote

We are also offering a service to submit items for those that can not attend for $75 per item.

 

_________________

Chris Bowen

ejapaneseswords.com

 

Attend the 2011 Arts and Arms of the Samurai Show and Shinsa! More info here:

http://www.ejapaneseswords.com/Arts_and ... murai.html

 

for those who were thinking of my help

i cant compeat with that price, let me know if you still plan on useing me.