Splidge Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 Hi gents. Need some advice about this peice I bought recently, http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWNX:IT I have to say I bought it because I liked it Tonight I was looking through evilbay again as one does and I came across this peice http://cgi.ebay.com/Traditional-Copper- ... 483eafc9f0 what are the chances of that happening My question is do I have the right to return the piece I bought in good faith in that the seller had good feed back and I guess I took her decription to be honest. Thanks in advance for your sympathy and mocking words of wisdom Frank Quote
Grey Doffin Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 Hi Frank, The tsubas are recently made cast fakes. Ask the seller to return, if that doesn't work try paypal, and if that doesn't work you can always return if you paid with a credit card. And then make sure your next purchase is a book. You need serious study before you attempt to buy anything Nihonto. This is an obvious fake and study beforehand would have saved you the bother. Grey Quote
Surfson Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Hopefully you can get your money back and it won't be too expensive of a lesson. Take a look at the nakago ana and how it is not cut crisply (in fact, not cut at all). Also look to be casting lines inside the kogai ana. "Inlay" also looks fake. Study it a while before you send it back, and compare to some in Compton or some of the other good collections. Quote
estcrh Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Returns:Returns accepted...That is the sellers policy, I would send them a link to the one you found, its entirely possible that they have no idea that they were fooled. It would be a good idea to post some pictures here of your next possible purchase and get some help from more knowledgeable members..also think about buying from one of the many forum members who have items for sale before taking a risk on ebay. Quote
sanjuro Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Quote Tonight I was looking through evilbay again as one does One thinks that perhaps one shouldn't until one can differentiate between a copy and the real thing. Quote its entirely possible that they (the seller) have no idea that they were fooled. Whilst I admire the faith in humankind that this reflects, I find it hard to believe. Take advantage of the return policy and get your money back, then stay away from ebay until you know what you are really looking at. Not a scathing indictment...... Just common sense. :D Quote
Thierry BERNARD Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 sanjuro said: Whilst I admire the faith in humankind that this reflects, I find it hard to believe. some fact : starting price £0.99 a good price at least 10 bidders if these 10 bidders don't have any idea of what they are bidding for, why do you want the seller knows what he sells Quote
sanjuro Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Oh gee, I dont know...... maybe because its thier business to know what they are selling . I dont doubt that they knew exactly what this was. They just conveniently forgot to disclose it to prospective buyers. In the occasional case where people do complain they cover their backsides with palliatives............. "Unfortunate mistake sir, you can of course have your money back"............. But how many simply dont complain and wear the loss and the dissappointment? Its a numbers game. This is why ebay is scam central. The seller clearly claims this to be an original piece.... Meiji period, as opposed to a cheap nasty modern casting. Quote
John A Stuart Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 It can be even more visious than that, as I just learned to my dismay. I bought some menuki that as soon as I received them realised they were reproductions. I contacted the seller, fujisan black, the very next day to say I wanted to return them as he had a return policy. He agreed if I could provide a NBTHK or NTHK certificate proving them FAKE. You all know the time and money to get that. So, I disputed the sale through Paypal. They would not find in my favour without proof either. He knew they were fakes and relied on the difficulty in proving it. The return policy meant nothing and was a good rip. $2000 for what I will now turn into cufflinks. I had thought I was beyond being taken, but, my greed for a good deal blinded me to common sense. Fool me. I feel sorry for all that are taken advantage of by dishonest @$%#@ John Quote
estcrh Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 John A Stuart said: It can be even more visious than that, as I just learned to my dismay. I bought some menuki that as soon as I received them realised they were reproductions. I contacted the seller, fujisan black, the very next day John, I see that he still has %100 feed back? Quote
John A Stuart Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 I didn't put negative feedback as I had hoped it would be resolved. By the time Paypal said nix it was too late. I have had others tell me about him afterwards and can't explain his 100%. John Quote
estcrh Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 John A Stuart said: I didn't put negative feedback as I had hoped it would be resolved. By the time Paypal said nix it was too late. I have had others tell me about him afterwards and can't explain his 100%. JohnJohn, not to derail this thread but I do remember you mentioning this incident awhile back, now that I know who it is I can say this...I bought several items from him a few yrs ago, I have even been to his house, and I can not imaging him being involved in a dispute like this, its disturbing and shocking to me...if he is a member of the forum I urge him to reconsider and accept the return of the items, even if he is convinced of their authenticity. Hearing this of course makes be reconsider ever buying anything from him in the future. Quote
Splidge Posted February 18, 2011 Author Report Posted February 18, 2011 John sorry to hear of your folly with the reproductions, I hope you do get it resolved. It seems that every once in a while any body can be caught out, at least in my case I have been in contact with the seller and she is going to make a full refund, a lesson learned me thinks any one have a good book for beginners about tsuba's? Many thanks for your advice gentlemen. Kind regards Frank Quote
Brian Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 John, I too have dealt once with your seller, and had a decent experience. So I find this shocking and disturbing too. I guess getting them to one of the USA shinsa's wouldn't be enough? That should be much cheaper than losing $2K, and not too difficult. I expect any number of members here would assist. I also would hesitate to deal with this seller again under these circumstances. Would you post some pics of the menuki? Brian Quote
Jamie Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 John , I was going to suggest what Bryan did. You could have them Pinkslipped in October-And although that would cost 100 bucks, you'd have proof and IMO it would be worth it to save the balance and just to let the seller know there are folks that will pursue this. I would definitely do that. They shouldn't get away with that. Quote
John A Stuart Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Ok, here are some pics. Here is a correspondance with another member. When I got them I saw that there was excess gold on the spines that indicate casting. If you look at the backs, here is where I buggered up, there are no signs of previous neshi (posts) (I thought maybe removed and reworked, which I should have known better), no yasuremei (file marks) on the edges as Goto artists did unfailingly, they are too thick indicating no repousse work only casting. They look nice at first glance, but, once in hand very obvious. I wouldn't call foul unless 100% sure. He must have known. John Quote
estcrh Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Here are a two pair of gold menuki as a comparison. http://www.nihonto.com/itemsalemenuki.html Quote Please note that all items purchased from this section have a three day inspection/approval period and may be returned, for any reason, if buyer is not completely satisfied. Quote
estcrh Posted February 19, 2011 Report Posted February 19, 2011 John, the difference between the gold menuki I am seeing online and the ones you were sold is striking. The ones you have are lacking any sign of ever having a post attached and there are no file marks, the backs look polished unlike the ones I am seeing. I would help to have better pictures of the front, but from what I am seeing I can understand why you were concerned. Quote
John A Stuart Posted February 19, 2011 Report Posted February 19, 2011 Another thing that I look for is kinsabe, which these show. It can be induced and should not be relied on to show age alone. John Quote
drbvac Posted February 19, 2011 Report Posted February 19, 2011 John: I have dealt with this guy as well and although I only purchased a little tanto - it was as described - well very close. That said I had no problem writing him and saying ""Dear fujisanblack, As a former customer and possibly a future one as well I was upset to hear on a board of troubles a friend was having returning some menuki that were not exactly as listed. He and many other experts on the board agree that they do not look exactly as they should and not accepting returns from good customers who have many contacts is probably not a great business decision - too bad."" DRBVAC The posts are read by hundreds of visitors as well and you could not buy directed advertising like this in the nihonto market either good or bad ! Poor move - I undertstand you may not like to use threats against a seller but I have no problem offering "advice" Quote
John A Stuart Posted February 19, 2011 Report Posted February 19, 2011 Indeed I was hesitant to even bring it forward. I can take my lumps when needed. It is Paypal the organ of e-Bay who really irked me the most in not enforcing the return policy. Thanks for the support everyone. John Quote
drbvac Posted February 19, 2011 Report Posted February 19, 2011 He replied as you may have suspected with "" Dear drbvac, The menuki were exactly as described in the listing. The pictures were quite thorough and very detailed. There was certainly nothing hidden, so I really don't see where the problem is. In any event, I will only accept NBTHK or NTHK telling me that they are anything other than what I said in the listing. Thanks. I replied that he better put that on as a requirement for returns on the site then !! They may have even used ones like these to take the mould impression for the damn casting - !! Quote
Grey Doffin Posted February 19, 2011 Report Posted February 19, 2011 One lesson to be gained from this experience is to be sure to pay paypal with a credit card. If the seller won't accept returns, and if paypal won't help, your credit card company will tell you to ship it back with a method that requires the seller to sign for the package, and once you have proof of delivery you will get 100% of your original payment (menuki & postage) back and the credit card people will get it out of the seller. Grey Quote
John A Stuart Posted February 19, 2011 Report Posted February 19, 2011 Grey, Too right. I made a cash transfer. John Quote
Surfson Posted February 19, 2011 Report Posted February 19, 2011 John, I have looked at his items many times and already come to the conclusion that you have. Sorry about the tough lesson, and I assume that the backs of the menuki were not visible? Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.