Photos of a study piece

[Veli]

Hi all!

 

This is the blade that was inside the koshirae with the guribori fuchikashira discussed last week in the tosogu section. It is a somewhat tired blade, but it has a lot of nice details to study. I'll let people make a guess of the tradition and school before I let you know what the old green papers say (not to be 100% trusted)... Nagasa is 69 cm, by the way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

BR, Veli

[Veli]

A few more pictures...

 

 

 

 

BR, Veli

[Veli]

...and here are the Tokubetsu Kicho papers (with an interesting year of issue, by the way).

 

 

 

BR, Veli

[gudis]

In my thoughts it a lovely blade, but im not tying to guess anything about the blade.

[Veli]

Well, if we trust what the papers say (den Hidemitsu), this is a Bizen Kozori blade from around late Nambokucho period with workmanship resembling that of Hidemitsu.

 

BR, Veli

[gtstcactus]

Would it be rude to ask what sort money this piece would fetch?

 

It's a really nice blade piece IMHO.

[John A Stuart]

Hi Veli, What makes you think it is nambokucho era Hidemitsu den? Up to the 3rd generation they were respected smiths, fin c.1400 CE. Is the quality of the sword equal to smiths of that period? Whereas the school lasted until Momoyama period, 200 years after the 3rd gen. John

[kusunokimasahige]

Could you post some more images of the Koshirae and fittings ? i think they are gorgeous !

 

KM

[Veli]

John, let's say that the timing of the blade in Nambokucho period is a working hypothesis, which I am ready to revise, should evidence point to a later date. Bizen Kozori group continued to early Muromachi period, but I haven't heard it reaching to as late a date as Momoyama... The blade's hamon pattern is somewhat subdued compared to mainline Bizen schools, which is one of the characteristics of the Kozori group.

 

If we assume that the futatsuji-hi ends roughly at the position of the original hamachi, the original nagasa has been up to 85 cm, which is rather long for a (late) Muromachi blade, but typical for Nambokucho blades. Furthermore, if you trace the curvature of the hi instead that of the nakago, you can see that originally the steepest curvature was near the original hamachi. This, I think, also points to a rather early type of sugata. The kissaki is not an O-kissaki, but still somewhat longer than average.

 

The blade is tired, but still displays a beautiful hada, and very few forging flaws. Also, utsuri can be clearly seen. I would say the workmanship is decent, though I would not call this a masterpiece. I would be thankful if you'd let me know your ideas of the timing of this blade.

 

Please take a look at the picture below. There you can see the curvature of the hi being different from the curvature of the nakago.

 

 

 

 

 

Henk-Jan, In the above picture you can see the menuki, which was not visible in previous photos. Please let me know if you want photos of some specific detail.

 

 

Jason, the price was equal to the cost of a decent polishing for two daito :D

 

BR, Veli

[John A Stuart]

Hi Veli, The ji utsuri is quite pronounced, I'd like to see that better. It doesn't seem to be chogi utsuri and the boshi is well defined with an apparent nioiguchi which does bring it forward to after the Kamakurajidai, maybe Oei period. The time of the 3rd gen. or possibly 4th gen. Hidemitsu and fellow toko, assuming the origami is correct. I shall leaf through my Osafune book this eve for further reference. Good to have a nice sword to activate the old brain cells. John

[kusunokimasahige]

Hello Veli, thank you for the photo of the Menuki and Tsuba. It looks like a nice lion !

 

I am also very interested in the koshirae which looks from the first photo to be half polished samegawa and half urushi.

 

Getting more and more interested in Urushi work and Makie-e, even thinking of doing a course if they still give them in Amsterdam.

 

Regds,

 

KM

[Veli]

Sorry for the very poor menuki photo. Here's a better one: the menuki theme is sansaru, not shishi!

 

 

I also uploaded a couple of utsuri photos as well as one koshirae photo into flickr.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/60209685@N06/

I am not happy with the resolution, however. Any suggestions about the best photo sharing site in terms of max. resolution???

 

 

BR, Veli

[John A Stuart]

I would love to eyeball this sword myself to see that utsuri. I have read in the Kosa that shingane and kawagane from repeated polishing can create an utsuri image. I haven't seen an example before though. I include a picture of a well drawn chogi utsuri. John

[Veli]

John,

 

You expressed one of my main concerns about the quality of the utsuri: could it be the type of shirake utsuri encountered in tired blades? Two facts speak against this, however: The utsuri is brightest on the healthiest-looking parts of the blade; furthermore, the utsuri flashes into sight only under lighting conditions that are required to properly see the nioiguchi. In any case the utsuri on my blade is nothing compared to the one illustrated in the drawing you posted.

 

BR, Veli

[Jean]

Hi Veli,

 

I have seen quite a lot of ustsuri as many people on NMB and there is something which gives me an uneasy feeling.

 

On all the Bizen blades, I have seen, when utsuri exists, it always starts from the shinogi (ridge line) and runs // (whatever the kind of utsuri) to the nioiguchi, sometimes coming very close to the nioiguchi but here it seems to start in the middle of the hiraji and touch the nioiguchi quite often ... It is perhaps, also, a side effect of the picture.

 

I don't know

[pcfarrar]

For comparison I've got a tanto with Choji utsuri. It is exactly as Jean describes above.

 

The photo isn't great but you can just about see it.

[Veli]

True, the quality of the utsuri is not at the level I'd wish it to be. However, please see page 50 of Facts and Fundamentals of Japanese Swords by Nakahara!

 

BR, Veli

[Jean]

Veli,

 

My problem is that the Utsuri starts in your photo from mid haraji (hada) and not from the shinogi and that it sticks to the habuchi without leaving any place to the hada.

 

I don't say it does not exist but I have never seen the case. It is perhaps the picture.

 

Maybe Reinhard can elaborate ...

[Jean]

I have just checked with p 50 of Facts and Fundamentals of Japanese Swords by Nakahara and He just conforts what I said. It starts from Shinogi and lets place to hada between Utsuri and habuchi

[John A Stuart]

This is from the Nihon Koto Shi. It is not without possibility that with the Shirake (midare) utsuri, the Omokume jihada, the Hi, the Boshi, this sword exhibits Oei period traits.

14. Osafune-mono (Sequel) & Yoshii-mono (Sequel)

There are the terms ‘Oei-Bizen’ and ‘Sue-Bizen’. The former is a favourable naming and the latter is somehow a derogatory one. Most of Bizen smiths who had been active in the Muromachi Period belong to the Osafune school and others to the Yoshii school. Osafune of Bizen Province and Seki of Mino Province were the biggest sword production sites during the Muromachi Period. Tachi made in the early period came to have an elegant sugata similar to that of the early Kamakura Period and differing from the grandiose sugata of the Nambokucho Period. They tempered gorgeous gunome mixed with choji differing from continuous ko-gunome and notare which had been in fashion during the Nambokucho Period.

Morimitsu, Yasumitsu, Iesuke, Moromitsu and Tsuneie are the leading smiths of the early Muromachi Period. ‘Koto Mei Zukushi’ says “The first generations of Moromitsu, Morimitsu, Iesuke and Tsuneie were active from the previous period up to the beginning of the Oei Period. The second generations were active from the Oei to the Shocho Era.” However, we hardly ever see the works of their first generations. The first generation of Yasumitsu is believed to have signed ‘Uemon no Jo Yasumitsu’ and it is said that there is an extant work of this Yasumitsu, with the production date of Oei 2. If the theory of ‘Koto Mei Zukushi’ were affirmed, the five leading Oei-Bizen smiths could be the second generations. These smith names were succeeded to after that, but it is extremely difficult to differentiate the different generations by the chiselling style of their mei. Swordsmith directories say that Moromitsu was active between the Eiwa and Hotoku, Morimitsu between the Oan and Daiei, Yasumitsu between the Oei and Eisho, Iesuke between the Bunwa and Tenbun, and Tsuneie between the Oei and Eisho. As a whole, there are few extant works of them after the Kakitsu Era. The typical and unique hamon by the Oei-Bizen smiths was described above, but they tempered sugu-ha on tanto and wakizashi in hira-zukuri which looks like Aoe at a glance. In any case, they produce traditional Bizen-utsuri on the ji. In addition, skilfully carved horimono of ken with sanko and bonji are seen on the works of Morimitsu and Yasumitsu.

Toshimitsu, Sanemitsu and Iemori are not as famous as the five leading Oei-Bizen smiths, but they left a few masterpieces that are never inferior in quality to the works of the five leading Oei-Bizen.

[Veli]

I was trying to refer to these, especially to Nakahara's illustration of Bo-utsuri:

 

 

 

 

BR, Veli

[John A Stuart]

Veli, you are thinking the utsuri you see resembles the bo utsuri in the oshigata? You are better able to decide that than us, having the sword right there. Funny, but, bo utsuri is another trait of Oei-Bizen. John

[cabowen]

generally, the later the blade, the lower and less complex the utsuri.....

[drbvac]

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/utsuri.html

 

Good link from the "sisters" on utsuri with some examples to help with the discussion for some of our newer members.

[bone]

Would utsuri eventually be polished away?

[John A Stuart]

No, not until core steel is reached by polishing, which in Bizenmono is muji hada, darker steel and easily spotted. John

[Veli]

I do agree with Jean in saying that the phenomenon discussed here cannot be the midare utsuri encountered especially in earlier Bizen-to, since that is indeed supposed to start from the shinogi. However, it does have a significant resemblance to the bo-utsuri illustrated by Nakahara. The bo-utsuri (if that is what we see) seems to date this blade to late Nambokucho (Kozori group only) or Oei periods (Oei-Bizen), just as John stated.

 

BR, Veli

[Jean]

Veli, you take the Nagayama Kokan and you'll see the opposite, Bo utsuri starting from shinogi (p 87)

 

I would like Ted advice on this topic as he has written an article on utsuri.

 

Now I have seen quite a lot of blades of Oei Bizen with Bo utsuri, they all started from the shinogi. I have talked to a much more experienced collector than me about it and he agrees with me, he thinks it is perhaps a shirake utsuri.

 

Hada for Hidemitsu in Bizen mono is referred as mokume or ko mokume, on your picture it looks more like tachi hada

 

Futatsuji are rarelly seen on Bizen blades (Connoisseurs P 76) except for Chogi.

[Jean]

Just to add concerning futatsuji bi that they are generally associated with Soshu mono, that's why we find them on Soden Bizen (Chogi)

[Veli]

Jean,

 

I cannot provide any guarantee - not even to myself - that the utsuri on my blade is proper bo-utsuri and not shirake utsuri arising from tiredness. But to state that all utsuri should reach up to the shinogi... I think this statement needs more research and references than those already discussed.

 

Futatsuji-hi can be seen at least in the works of Omiya school, too (Connoisseurs p. 184):

http://www.katanagallery.com/details_oeuvres.php?oeuvres_id=18

 

As for the hada at the position of the utsuri, please refer to 3rd picture of my 2nd mail "5_hada.jpg".

 

BR, Veli