Tassel on ebay

[Stephen]

Being i receved a replacment of the orange and brown with a very mint red and brown, i though id check ebay for going price....

 

i think this one has something going on with the bidding, and all for what ...it looks repro to me...how about you?

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Tassel-code-Japanes ... 1c18ee258d

[gardehusar]

I can't see anywhere that it says it's antique? It just say that it has a used feeling to it :-)

 

I think it's a repro, hehe.

[Brian]

I don't see any reason to suspect this is a fake. I am sure there are still mint ones to be found in Japan, where this one is. Nothing unusual about the bidder either. History shows he has a solid interest in these and similar items.

Mint nowdays commands a huge premium with militaria collectors.

Oh..and this wouldn't be called antique anyways. Older than 100 years? hmm.

Not to say it is 100% genuine, but I can't see any warnings.

 

Brian

[drbvac]

Stephen: It certainly appears too clean and without any fraying at all to be anything but made last thursday.

[Brian]

I have a 99.5% mint condition 1878 manufactured Colt Lightning revolver that says that condition is a bad indicator of real or not.

Are we really prepared to put down an item or influence an auction because the item is too good? I see WW2 British militaria every day here that has been put away since the war and never touched. I am sure there is still a ton of stuff in storage in Japan.

Any other suspicious indicators besides it being good condition? If not, I don't want us jumping to confusions please.

 

Brian

[drbvac]

True enough Brian - just without any provenance and a picture on E-bay of all places I will admit to possibly being too suspicious. In hand from a very reputable dealer who knows how and why it is perfect - thats different. As well, when you get into the very high end of these, any of these collectables on E-bay - it really can be a minefield.

[pcfarrar]

I think its a fake too, the colour seems wrong and the fabric itself just doesn't look right.

[Stephen]

a closer look will tell ya

 

do i need to take a pix of mine to show how is put together???

Stiching is way off

 

edit to add pix of mine

[drbvac]

Stephen:

 

You have been reduced to asking teaching/ learning for us - rhetorical questions - getting bored >

[katanako]

Shine a black light on it to see if there are any synthetic in it.

There are mint specimens out there. Look at this. A general and major's mint tassels unissued with

the wrappers still on them!

[Sporkkaji]

I had an automatic search for Navy tassels which would notify me whenever one was listed on Ebay. From time to time this same seller would put six or so up at once and they didn't seem to sell, then they would all be relisted again at some point. Looked fishy so I stopped considering his items.

[Guido]

Just in case somebody wonders where some of those pristine tassels might come from ...

http://www.casiberia.com/prod_Detail.aspx?ID=sh2445

[Marius]

I know this might not be the "popular" view, but here I go, if you don't mind:

 

In recent weeks I have seen tassels, tassels, and tassels on this Forum.

 

I understand that members here collect militaria, but this is supposed to be a nihonto and kodogu Forum (mainly). Am I still right?

 

My suggestion is: could we keep those things where they do belong, regardless if they are on eBay or anywhere else - in the "Military Swords of Japan" section?

 

I must say, I don't appreciate those tassel/sarute/other gunto parts sales in the or Sale or Trade section. But I assume I'll have to live with that.

 

Brian, please, don't let this forum degenerate into a place for militaria.

 

Just a humble request, now I am ready to take the flak.

[Guido]

Mariusz oh Mariusz, I fought that war when I was still a mod, but in the end met my Waterloo.

Nice try, but unfortunately a totally moot suggestion.

[Stephen]

My suggestion is when you see title Sarute and Tassel...not to open it and go on to higher learning if it bothers you so much. Was glad to see Gudio has lowerd his standards to post about such.

[Brian]

I understand where you are coming from, but I daresay that people only looking to study Nihonto or Tosogu shouldn't really be browsing the eBay section?

Point taken though. We will never get away form the militaria aspect. Not while there are great Gendaito out there, and tons of Shin Gunto with much older blades in them. These swords are not merely militaria, and also deserve to be studied. But in their correct place too. Myself and the mods will try and police the sections a bit tighter.

Btw..Anyone who is really offended by the militaria or wartime stuff..it only takes me a few clicks to totally remove those sections from the visible forum you can view. Can do it with the eBay section too for those inclined?

Applications for this by pm please.

 

Brian

[Marius]

Oh dear... I see...

[Weidas]

  Stephen said:

My suggestion is when you see title Sarute and Tassel...not to open it and go on to higher learning if it bothers you so much. Was glad to see Gudio has lowerd his standards to post about such.

 

being total lowborn by standards of Mariusz with my interest in kyu - gunto, i thank Stephen for his post

[Guido]

  Stephen said:

Was glad to see Gudio has lowerd his standards to post about such.

Yup, that's me, I can lower myself to standards so low that your consciousness can't comprehend it. Especially if I had one drink too many. Just ask the DTI regulars. I've learned to live with much more annoying things than a dedicated Guntô / militaria forum in my life, and since it's here to stay, I made my peace with it. Besides, I'm mortally afraid of wet bath towels, being alone in a room with a spider, and Brian threatening to make certain forums invisible to me.

[Stephen]

  Quote

threatening to make certain forums invisible to me.

 

 

LOL that gave me the chills too.

[Brian]

Sheesh, you guys have no idea the underground forums that are really going on here right under your noses.

Didn't you even know about the secret Shunga forums, or the private Bolivian midget bagpipe band discussion group that are hidden except for members?

Heck, we even have an elite Juyo-only Tosogu forum that doesn't allow just anyone in. Not even I have access to that one. It's all here folks..just need your permission groups unlocked.

 

Seriously though, may consider an open chat discussion section where people can go off topic and discuss anything in general. Most forums have them, and I don't think it will detract from anything else. Registered members only, and a place to unwind and destress.

I know there will be some opposition, but I think it's necessary to keep that stuff out of the dedicated sections.

 

Brian

[sanjuro]

Brian

 

Where do I sign up for the anti gunto forum? We are already seeing requests for IJA bayonets and uniforms in the wanted section - The tassel wagglers have had a field day lately and the "Please tell me what the funny writing on my mass produced WW2 sword means" brigade seems to dominate the postings. We wont go into the 'OOOh have you seen the gunto whatever on ebay?' section

Militaria has its place certainly, but its place isnt all over the place, and I daresay I am not alone in being definitely not gaga about gunto.

[Marius]

  sanjuro said:

Militaria has its place certainly, but its place isnt all over the place, and I daresay I am not alone in being definitely not gaga about gunto.

 

Keith,

 

and this is exactly why Brian has moved this thread to the proper section.

 

Thank you Brian, very much appreciated

[Brian]

Keith,

And yet the bayonet and IJA stuff was removed pretty fast (even without the request to do so) and the poster had no problem with that, and was quite gracious about it. So that hardly leaves a ton of non-nihonto stuff. And about 90% more on topic stuff than other forums out there. On the whole, pretty good I say. We would do better to stop looking for the occasional exception and see the great discussions right in front of us.

 

Brian

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

  Brian said:

Seriously though, may consider an open chat discussion section where people can go off topic and discuss anything in general.

 

Brian, may I suggest you at least to limit this generic one to Japan and Japanese items/culture ? A totally generic one proved to be the hardest to maintain peaceful in SFI that placed twice the mods the other dedicated forums had. Not sure it's a good idea to distress even more the mods with such a burden.

[Marius]

  Brian said:

Keith,

And yet the bayonet and IJA stuff was removed pretty fast (even without the request to do so) and the poster had no problem with that, and was quite gracious about it. So that hardly leaves a ton of non-nihonto stuff. And about 90% more on topic stuff than other forums out there. On the whole, pretty good I say.

 

Brian,

 

you have become the victim of your own, high standards

People have seen three or four tassel posts and they got uncomfortable :D

 

Thanks for your focus, I am sure it is very appreciated by the Forum members. We don't have commercial spam here, we don't have off-topics too often, we don't have adolescent flame wars, somebody show me another forum with such a track record

[sanjuro]

Please dont get me wrong on this. I appreciate the difficulties in separating the nihonto stuff from the gunto and all the other classifications. My comment was not a criticism of how the mods and Brian are running the show. Indeed in comparison to other forums, what is being achieved here is stellar and much appreciated. Much if not all of that we owe to the dedication of our mods and to Brian's excellent administration.

Many of us I appreciate, started with gunto and have moved upward and onward from those beginnings. Gunto is a great gene pool for future collectors to arise from and indeed some elect to stay in that area because of an interest they have in it. I do not look down on them for their interest, specialisation or whatever. There is no elite in this hobby we share, just different emphases according to interest.

That I have little or no interest in gunto/militaria is not the issue. That there are a number like myself is inevitable in a society of collectors some 1500 strong. Is there then some forum within the forum for those who appreciate the older blades and tosogu to which we can contribute without alienating ourselves from the main forum? If not, thats fine. This is just a thought. :D

[John A Stuart]

The problem is that the edges become blurred sometimes. Some gunto are traditionally made gendaito and thus Nihonto even though I tend to dismiss them as being sub-standard and should be relegated to the militaria section. Others would disagree vehemently and would have a valid argument. If we accept that point of view than all the bits and bobs are legitimate subjects to discuss as they are a part of the whole, including tassels. Not even mentioning Nihonto of a previous era being mounted as gunto. When we discussed the formation of a sub-forum for these type of swords it was to give space for discussion of these swords while keeping the Nihonto section more purely devoted to the traditional definition of Nihonto. Sometimes there is a cross-over, but, with a little patience this shouldn't irk our sensibilities too much. This also depends on members using the correct sub-forum and we must allow for new members feeling out the forum in their early days. John

[David Flynn]

I wholeheartedlly agree with John. I myself, along with Chris Bowen and George Trotter, are Gendai Collectors. Unfortuneately, there are some who think that, because they collect pre 20thcentury swords they have dibs on what is classed as Nihonto. This certainly is not the case, eg. The Florida show is having a major talk on Gendai, and we intend to do the Same at the Sydney Show in Sept. As far a s tassels go, these are part of a Koshirae and why shouldn't the be classed that way?

[sanjuro]

  Quote

Unfortuneately, there are some who think that, because they collect pre 20thcentury swords they have dibs on what is classed as Nihonto.

 

This isnt what its all about is it? The old 'Us and Them' thing? Have we not grown out of this yet? I thought we may have stopped picking at that old scab.

What or what is not classed as nihonto is very clearly defined and is not the issue here. Unfortunately it is often a lack of knowledge of that definition by newbies and even some gunto collectors that is the seat of contention. Yes the lines are sometimes blurred by an older blade being mounted in gunto mounts. They are further blurred by 'collectors' who mount gunto blades in koshirae from earlier periods etc etc etc. The classification of nihonto however is not in the hands of a select few who collect pre 20th century blades. It is in the blade itself, not the koshirae! The PERCEPTION of elitism on the part of collectors of pre 20th century blades is probably more divisive in itself than any other factor or preference each group may have. For my own part, in a collecting sense, anything made after the battle of Sekigahara is of lesser interest, let alone swords made in the 20th century! That however, is not the point. We all know (or should know),that some 20th century blades are most definitely nihonto and others are most certainly not. We also know what is militaria and what is not.