Katanadansu locksmith?

[Ken-Hawaii]

I purchased a great katanadansu from Craig Harris - thanks, Craig! - which is perfectly functional except that it lacks a key to the locks. Does anyone know of a locksmith for these lock plates?

[DirkO]

I know some people buy old keys (come up now and then on eBay) and adjust them to fit...

[Ken-Hawaii]

That may be a good idea if you're a locksmith, Dirk, which I'm certainly not.

 

One key-slot is straight, while the other is straight on the bottom half, & dog-legged left on the top half, & I have no idea what the inside mechanism is like.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Thanks for the info, Arvada (please sign your real name per Brian's rules), but this katanadansu is over 125 years old. Its locking mechanism is a 1/4-inch iron plate with a keyhole that looks like that left 2/3 of a "Y." The box looks something like this (http://www.shibuihome.com/product1645.html), although the key is different (you can zoom into the top image). So it's very low-tech, rather than high, & none of the local locksmiths have ever worked on anything similar.

 

The drawer is open, BTW, but I want to be able to secure it.

[watsonmil]

Dear Ken,

Generally most of these locks are more to secure the drawer from someone casually being snoopy, than to avoid intended robbery. Not guaranteeing this will work, ... but I've had luck with old locks by: Take a piece of thin steel sheet about 2 inches long slightly thinner than the width of the slot, and cut it or grind to the correct width. Bend it in a vise to the correct angle to fit the key slot on the lock plate. You now can insert this bent piece of steel to find the correct depth to hit the back of the lock. Now grind or file away all but the end of your piece of steel ( leaving about 1/2 the depth of the lock on the one end of your key blank or sheet ). Quite often by inserting this primitive key you will be able to turn and lift the tumbler ( catch ). If you don't succeed on turning and catching the tumbler, remove a little more off the end and/or width of the primitive key and try again. Now should this work, ... you go and find yourself a proper looking flat key ( antique junk shop ) and bend and file to fit and look correct. Trying to explain in writing is making this sound difficult, ... but it really is not. A little patience is required, .. but it often works.

... Ron Watson

[Ken-Hawaii]

Aloha, Ron:

 

Thanks for the detailed instructions. What I'm still scratching my head over is how to make a half-Y-shaped key that will turn in the slot. Picture a one-inch-tall "Y" with the top-right leg cut off, & that's my key-slot. The reason I want to lock that katanadansu drawer is that my grandkids love to open drawers, & this is where I store the large sharp things they don't need to have access to. A burglar would simply carry off the entire chest, of course, assuming our nine cats didn't eat him first....

 

Ken

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Ken,

Please post a couple pictures: one an extreme closeup of the lock from the front with bright light and the other a full front shot of the tansu so we can see what surrounds the drawer. The 1st picture might give one of us a better idea how to get a key and the 2nd might lead to a solution that doesn't include using the lock.

Grey

[Ken-Hawaii]

Okay, Grey, here's a close-up shot:

 

and the full view:

 

It looks like it would need a hollow key, & please note that although it looks like it's solid behind the hollow, it really does go back about 1 cm, according to my probe.

 

Ken

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Ken,

2 ideas: You could try having a key made from either brass or steel. There is a company here in the States called Small Parts (google it) that sells tube and sheet in graduated sizes in a variety of metals. they will need to be soldered/welded together and the sheet bent to fit. Once you have the blank, if the key doesn't turn you coat it with soot (hold it over a candle) and file away the areas of the blank that show contact with the soot. A bit of jiggering should work.

You also have the option of a jerry rigged lock inside the tansu. This consists of a couple eye screws and a pin. Remove the drawer above to access the pin and get the locked drawer open. As long as the kids don't see you doing this they'll believe the drawer is locked; it will keep the honest people honest.

Hope you understand my directions; hope this helps.

Grey

[bluboxer]

Hello Ken,

this may be a simple barrel key/lock with a projecting tooth off of the end that mates with a hole in the strike plate.The dogleg was often just to prevent the key from fitting other locks and makes no contact with a tumbler pin.

If you can see to the bottom of the ring shaped hole (penlight needed) maybe you will spot a hole or other recess on the back inside face.If so you can try to find a length of tubing as Grey suggested and file the end to match.

Nice piece!

[Ken-Hawaii]

Umm, Hawaii is a part of "the States," Grey - we call you "the mainland." :D Your idea for an interior lock is a good one, but I sometimes wish that our grandkids didn't take so much after my wife & me...we're both engineers. The long-term solution is, of course, to teach them how to handle & respect the swords, as they will likely inherit them as caretakers some day. Our 17-year-old granddaughter isn't a problem, but the 8- & 9-year-old boys are something else. Thanks for the lead on SmallParts.com, too; they have lots of neat stuff for our perpetual projects.

 

I'm pleasantly surprised at how much "lock knowledge" our forumites have! Alan, there isn't any hole in the back inside plate, but craning my neck & peering inside the hole, I can see what looks like a strong metal mechanism at the top of the lock. I can't get a lock-pick inside, but I was able to move it a bit with another small tool. That didn't move the lock tongue, however, so I'm now assuming that it may take at least one full turn to actuate the mechanism. I guess I'll be fitting, welding, & filing for awhile.

 

I bought the katanadansu from Craig Harris at Bridge of Dreams books. Craig obviously has a lot of other items besides just books, & his price was excellent. I have the katanadansu mounted on top of another, smaller Japanese cabinet, locked together with screws. The lower cabinet gives me another four large drawers for items like tsuba, cleaning materials, etc. It's amazing at how tightly the old Japanese cabinetry drawers fit together! I love hearing the whooosh of air every time I open or close a drawer on cabinetry that's well over a century old. Today's manufacturers just don't have that same pride of workmanship.

 

Ken

[Tanto54]

Hi Ken,

 

Almost all tansu locks work in the same way: the flat "bolt" (which slides up and goes into the metal slot in the top of the drawer case) has one or two "leaf springs" that are "sprung" away from the bolt. The key almost invariably has two "prongs" between which the bolt and leaf spring(s) can fit (where the bolt and leaf spring(s) are welded or pined together). As the key is turned, the prongs compress the leaf spring(s) against the bolt, "grab" it by friction and allow it to pass through another slot in the lock mechanism (now that the leaf spring(s) are compressed against the flat side of the bolt) - thereby withdrawing the bolt from the metal slot in the case (or in the case of locking, allowing the bolt to slide into the metal slot in the case) and allowing the drawer to open. There are only about 20 variations of these keys, so it should be quite easy to find an antique one that will fit. Kelly Schmidt, a ebay seller from Japan has a large collection of keys, so if you send him a detailed picture of the lock face next to a ruler, I'll bet he can send you a key that will work for less than $20 (I have no connection with Kelly other than the fact that I've purchased a few tansu from him over the years). His e-mail address is: schmidt_araki@ybb.ne.jp

[Ken-Hawaii]

Believe it or not, I was corresponding with an auctioneer in Osaka & he just sent me the following item to bid on:

 

 

Does this look like the same type of key that would work in my katanadansu lock?? It might have one or two "teeth, but if this is the type of key I need, it will certainly be easier to make than what I had planned!

[Tanto54]

Hi Ken,

 

Yes, that exactly the type of key you need. It may or may not fit your lock. You need to consider "pin" size (that the pin post inside the lock that the tube part of the key turns on), how long the prongs (what you called "teeth") are and where they bend, and finally, how far the prongs are apart. Some of these considerations can be adjusted to fit your lock by carefully bending or filing the prongs, but others (like if the post is too big to go in the tube of the key) cannot be adjusted. The lock on auction in Japan will probably sell for $150-$200, but if you contact Kelly or someone else who has a large collection of keys, you can probably get a key for less than $20.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Small planet, George. That's exactly who I'm talking with. Never dawned on me that might have a bunch of keys....

 

I'm bidding on several of his items, & will ask him immediately. Mahalo nui loa! (Thanks a whole bunch!)

 

Ken

[Bugyotsuji]

Often katanadansu were tied up with flat cord like a tomobako, with a special bow on the top. Now if you could figure out a fancy knot, that could become an added obstacle on the course to the treasure.

[Ken-Hawaii]

With my grandkids, it would have to be steel cable, Piers!! Kinda' hard to knot....

 

Oh, & Kelly just advised me that he no longer has any tansu keys because his "collection has considerably dwindled as I have used up so many to fit tansus I had bought with no keys."

 

Oh, well; it was worth a try.

 

Ken

[Bugyotsuji]

Ken I would play with Ron's idea, and worry at it until you get it.

 

I have a funa-dansu which had no keys, and a local man made a complete set for me, (posted on the site somewhere) which goes to show that sometimes the impossible can be reduced right down to the possible! :lol: