Edo Tsuba??

gtstcactus · January 31, 2011

4 Tsuba have recently come up for sale nearby me..... I'll post pics, hoping for comments regarding authenticity.....

They are supposed to be edo period. Price (bids start at and will likely sell for approx $150USD) $200NZD exact price / start bid. The pics of the 2 below are of the ones for sale I'm interested in. As a matter of interest I'll post the 2 that have sold in a later post / reply.

Jason

Alan Morton · February 1, 2011

Hi Jason, the tsubas you show [2] are well worth 150 bucksUS

They both look a bit grubby and could use some TLC.

The one with the dragon looks to be Jakushi school and don't

know about the other one.Do you pics of the 3rd one?

Alan.

gtstcactus · February 1, 2011

Hi Jason, the tsubas you show [2] are well worth 150 bucksUS
They both look a bit grubby and could use some TLC.

The one with the dragon looks to be Jakushi school and don't

know about the other one.Do you pics of the 3rd one?

Alan.

Sorry I might have given the wrong impression, they are each $150USD approx ($200NZD exact start bid). The 3rd and 4th ones he had have sold. I'll include pics as a matter of interest. They are also meant to be from the Edo period. One is possibly Shaomi school

Jason

gtstcactus · February 1, 2011

The 1st picture included of the dragon tsuba has the following dimenions:

Size: 81.1 x 85.6 x 4mm

Nakago-ana: 10.5 x 31.6mm

Shape:

Nade gakka ('squared round')

Dote mimi (Raised rim).

I'm really keen on the dragon and cloud tsuba in the 1st & 2nd picture. It is Mumei. If anyone else can offer any info I'd be greatful!

Jason

Jimmy R · February 1, 2011

Just a few thoughts on the Dragon Tsuba. First of all why is the Dote Mimi so irregular? That raises some alarms as to whether it is a quality original piece or not. But then when we look at it in the context of it being a cast one could surmise that it the Dote is actually an impression of a well worn Fukurin. Then looking at the rest of the tsuba more observations can be made to back up the conclusion that this is a cast. Such as the poor definition of the Carving in general and the hitsu having the appearance of being solid to the piece and not actual plugs added later. Also the coloration of the dragon carving is neither Sentoku or Hira-Zogan and actually looks like same sort of acid applique used on cheap repro's.

Just something to think about.

Just my opinion.

Jim

gtstcactus · February 1, 2011

Just a few thoughts on the Dragon Tsuba. First of all why is the Dote Mimi so irregular? That raises some alarms as to whether it is a quality original piece or not. But then when we look at it in the context of it being a cast one could surmise that it the Dote is actually an impression of a well worn Fukurin. Then looking at the rest of the tsuba more observations can be made to back up the conclusion that this is a cast. Such as the poor definition of the Carving in general and the hitsu having the appearance of being solid to the piece and not actual plugs added later. Also the coloration of the dragon carving is neither Sentoku or Hira-Zogan and actually looks like same sort of acid applique used on cheap repro's.
Just something to think about.

Just my opinion.

Jim

Thanks for your input, the points you raise are all valid, and are things I don't know to look for or am able recognise. The seller I think obtained them whilst living in the netherlands, claims to have shown them at shows etc receiving good feedback / comments and is quite adament they are edo period pieces. He did say the "gold" was worn.

I have attached a closeup of the coloration.........

Jason

Michael 101 · February 2, 2011

The dragon tsuba is typical for the Higo based kumagai school work who specialised in copying Higo school tsuba in the late Edo period. This is their version of a Shimizu Jingo tsuba which would have been made for buyer who couldnt afford the "Jingo" brand.

It would be a very good buy at the price range you mention.

Kind regards

Michael

gtstcactus · February 2, 2011

The dragon tsuba is typical for the Higo based kumagai school work who specialised in copying Higo school tsuba in the late Edo period. This is their version of a Shimizu Jingo tsuba which would have been made for buyer who couldnt afford the "Jingo" brand.

It would be a very good buy at the price range you mention.

Kind regards

Michael

Now that's some good info! Just the sort of thing I'm interested in hearing.....

Kind of looks like the one in this post http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3067&p=22621

Soshin · February 2, 2011

Now that's some good info! Just the sort of thing I'm interested in hearing.....

Kind of looks like the one in this post http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3067&p=22621

I was going to say that the kin-zogan (gold inlay) looks real and consistent with work of the late Edo period on the dragon tsuba. The cross hatching of the gold inlay is clearly visible.

Yours truly,

David S.

Curran · February 2, 2011

Michael 101 said exactly what I was thinking.

"Edo Higo" (aka. Kumagai) may not be as good as the original Jingo (Shimizu), but a very nice buy at $150.

If choosing one, go with that one. There will be several things to study about it.

As Jim R. pointed out, the mimi is a bit irregular... but it often seems to be in Edo Higo. They were sort of the street level Tokyo sellers, like the main floor room of Tiffany in NYC. Items are/were nice, but lack attention to detail that the original commissioned pieces have. The less than perfect mimi is rather common in Edo Higo and after a while it sticks in the mind as a kantei point.

Good luck.

gtstcactus · February 2, 2011

Ok, LOL I've gone from thinking the Dragon tsuba was alright, then I thought I shouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole, and now I'm back to thinking it's alright and worth getting. Maybe I should have included that closeup of the gold colored work sooner...