IcQb Posted January 31, 2011 Report Posted January 31, 2011 dear nihontomessageboard members, I wanted to ask your opinions on a tsuba i managed to get my hands on. This tsuba is supposed to be from the 16th century, and signed Nobuie. I included some pictures... What are the chances of it being real? and if not, why not? Thank you all for your opinions and time! regards, Steven, belgium Quote
Mark Posted January 31, 2011 Report Posted January 31, 2011 not sure exactly what you mean by "real". In my opinion: It is a real tsuba It could possibly be made in the 16th century It may have been made by someone named Nobuiye It was not made by the famous maker by that name Quote
IcQb Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Posted January 31, 2011 By 'real' i indeed ment: by the famous Nobuie How can you tell it is not made by him? I do not doubt your judgement, as i myself know little about it, i'm merely interested in the reason! Quote
Grey Doffin Posted January 31, 2011 Report Posted January 31, 2011 If you bought it from a knowledgeable dealer for less than $10,000 you can be sure that it isn't the famous Nobuiye. :D Grey Quote
IcQb Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Posted January 31, 2011 No off chance it's one that slipped under the radar :lol: ? Then i'd like to change my question... Can it then just be an very old, very well made forgery? And what am i looking at? I can see kikkou background and a carthweel? what could the golden branch be? thank you anyone who answers this noobs questions Quote
Grey Doffin Posted January 31, 2011 Report Posted January 31, 2011 HI (name please), Not a forgery. Just one of thousands of tsuba made in the style of Nobuiye by one of many tsuba-shi who signed with the famous name after the name and style were made important. Grey Quote
Mark Posted January 31, 2011 Report Posted January 31, 2011 Nobuiye tsuba that i have seen in the past have had a different "look" or "feel". I would expect the tsuba to be thicker, the steel usually looks "deeper" and the color is a deep somewhat slightly dull black. I guess nothing is imposible but if i saw it for sale based on what i see i would only buy it as something to mount. There will be a shinsa in the US later this year and Japan is an easy option for fittings shinsa. If you think it is "real" after getting opinions here and elsewhere then best to submit it Quote
IcQb Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Posted January 31, 2011 -Grey By forgery, i meant 'copy' as you describe it... So there's stil the chance it's old? My name is Steven, btw, as mentioned in my first post -Mark The tsuba is 5mm thick at the rims, 4mm in the center. I was planning on mounting it! I think i'll show it to my sensei when he comes in april! thank you both for the comments! Quote
Mark Posted January 31, 2011 Report Posted January 31, 2011 It looks old to me. in my first post i said it could be the age you thought. If i saw the tsuba without the signature or name i would have thought maybe 300 years old. Quote
Toryu2020 Posted February 1, 2011 Report Posted February 1, 2011 Steven et al - my understanding is that there was a thriving school of tsuba makers at Akasaka in Edo (now Tokyo) that fed a thriving tourist trade with Nobuie style works. I would seek out examples of their work to compare. This is more 19th century in my humble opinion... -t Quote
Henry Wilson Posted February 1, 2011 Report Posted February 1, 2011 Goodness gracious me. This must be one of the worst threads I have ever read. I think I shall just ignore it as some one is probably going to tell me. Quote
Brian Posted February 1, 2011 Report Posted February 1, 2011 This is definitely (very very very definitely) not THE Nobuie. A little time spent studying his works will make that clear. Henry, pray enlighten us with your thoughts why this thread is so particularly bad..I am intrigued Have no fear, if I don't like your reply, I can always delete it. Brian Quote
bridgeofdreams Posted February 1, 2011 Report Posted February 1, 2011 Regarding "Nobuie" vs. "THE Nobuie," Haynes lists at least 15 examples of real artisans who signed "Nobuie." I recall being very wet behind the ears and getting excited about an admittedly very nice tanto by "Kunimitsu." Of course it was not "THE Kunimitsu." - Craig Quote
Henry Wilson Posted February 1, 2011 Report Posted February 1, 2011 Brian, I think Craig answered the question for me. The tsuba above is not even half nice.... :| Quote
Soshin Posted February 2, 2011 Report Posted February 2, 2011 I think something that should not be overlooked about this tsuba being a middle to late Edo Period Nobuie copy or not. The condition of the tsuba is very poor the surface has much active red rust. I know this will affect the color of the iron patina greatly. The surface reminds me of a Satome school tsuba that I have before I started the very long process of removing the rust with using natural methods outlined at the end of Sasano's first book and discussed on the Tosogu message board. With this tsuba the removal process of the red rust is complicated by prescence of some gold inlay work something I don't think you see in original Nobuie works of the first two generations from the Momoyama or early Edo Periods. Yours truly, David S. Quote
IcQb Posted February 2, 2011 Author Report Posted February 2, 2011 - henry, Thank you for the reply! I think i will go out and get some bone tonight! Quote
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