Captain Posted January 30, 2011 Report Posted January 30, 2011 Hi to you all I am new to this forum and thought I would submit these 6 Tsuba with the limted history I have. I bought a Japanese cabinate about 20 years ago, part of the decoration was old metal sword fittings some were loose. I was told that the cabinate was made in about 1890 but the fittings could be older. That is about all I know, I would like to hear what you all think about these items No 1 No2 No3 No4 No5 N06 There seems to be makers markings on soom of them and I think there are Menuki on the drawers Thank you for looking at these and I wait for your comments Kind regards David Quote
Curran Posted January 31, 2011 Report Posted January 31, 2011 *Sigh* #1: Damaged something or other, most likely Shoami. Can't see the signature to tell. #2: Choshu or bushu style tsuba. #3: Bushu-Ito or some close derivative #4: Hizen dragons on a relatively generic plate of a tsuba #5: Namban tsuba, relatively rusted up. #6 Mito shoami, shiremono. Hit the books or research online. To the box maker's credit, they are actual tsuba. The "menuki" do not appear to be real menuki. However, ask yourself if you would glue-gun fine tsuba to a box? Value is relative at this level and should best be assessed on ebay. Thank you for respected the protocol of signing with a proper name. Curran Quote
JPenn Posted January 31, 2011 Report Posted January 31, 2011 Curran said: #6 shiremono. If you do not mind me asking, what is the 'tell' of this piece being shiiremono? I currently understand shiiremono as being pieces made Meiiji (or maybe very late Tokugawa) and later as trinkets largely sold to tourists, and not made to be mounted on swords. These seem very often to have been made of cast iron. In the past, I've owned (fortunately, not at high cost) a couple such pieces I've evaluated as shiiremono- dark (not chocolatey brown) cast iron with mold lines, lumpy bubbly poor-detailed surfaces, sloppy file marks on the seppa dai surface, a look as if they've never been mounted and poor proportions compared to tsuba known to be genuine (too thick for their diameter). While not of exceptional craftsmanship #6 doesn't have any of the tells of the shiiremono I've handled before. I humbly ask, in hopes to expand my knowledge, what makes this piece 'recieved goods'? J. Penn Quote
Captain Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Posted January 31, 2011 Many thanks both of you I appreciate your replies. Please could you explain the terms you have used as I am a complete novice here and need all the help I can get. Thanks again David Quote
Curran Posted February 1, 2011 Report Posted February 1, 2011 J. Penn, Mito-shoami shiiremono. A bit more specific than just shiiremono, which is more general. Shape of the plate, poor grainy iron for something only a little over 100 years old, lower right hand minimal vague design done in copper quickly and very lightly guided over with gold and silver. Rubs off so easy. After the first thousand or so, they start to blur together. _____________________________________________________ David, No one else replied. It tells you something. At least they are actual tsuba. Take the info I've given you and pop it into the search function or google it. People are pretty generous here, sometimes incredibly so. Buy a copy of Harry Watson's Nihonto Koza Kodogu volume or track down the Northern California Japanese Sword Society and buy a photocopy of the Tsuba Study book. Quote
Captain Posted February 1, 2011 Author Report Posted February 1, 2011 Many thanks Curran Will try and get some books thanks for the help David Quote
JPenn Posted February 1, 2011 Report Posted February 1, 2011 Curran said: J. Penn, Mito-shoami shiiremono. A bit more specific than just shiiremono, which is more general. Shape of the plate, poor grainy iron for something only a little over 100 years old, lower right hand minimal vague design done in copper quickly and very lightly guided over with gold and silver. Rubs off so easy. After the first thousand or so, they start to blur together. _____________________________________________________ A thank you, Curran. I've seen many and handled a few of this sort of tsuba myself (not thousands, though!) and had assumed an older age than shiiremono, for they are cut and hammered plates with sculpted soft-metal decoration applied. This is, of course, a method of construction done (at much higher quality) in genuine samurai-era tsuba. As opposed to cast-iron lumps. I stand very corrected about these shiiremono, however. J. Penn Quote
Curran Posted February 2, 2011 Report Posted February 2, 2011 JPenn of Western New York formerly South Jersey, I spent many years in Jersey City with a nice view of the Statue of Liberty's backside, with the future wife in grad school in Phili and the extended family in northern PA. I am sure we've traveled many of the same roads at different times over the years. I'm now in Florida sharing responsibility for my parents and very senior grandparents. I don't miss the weather you've gone through this season, but I do miss the sort of character to be had in that part of the country. To get to 1000 Mito-shoami shiiremono without serious wear and tear on the wallet, flipping through tables at Tampa, San Fran, Chicago sword shows helps a lot. I owned at least two in my early collecting days.... both off to ebay long long ago. Get to a sword show or two whenever you can. I know there aren't any in the New York area (even the shinsa related ones are weak), so get to Tampa or San Fran when you need a break form that latitude. Quote
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