Mei

[Jean]

From the French Forum

 

Has anyone heard of a smith signing "Bizen Kuni Ju Nagamitsu"

 

http://img502.imageshack.us/f/nagamitsumei.jpg/

[Wickstrom]

Jean,

 

Nihontoclub has a couple listed smiths that signed with this mei.

 

 

http://nihontoclub.com/smiths/NAG50

 

http://nihontoclub.com/smiths/NAG52

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

NAG 289 ? 長光

 

Nah, the Naga is surely the other one (永)... That darn Ju 住.. This signature seems not listed in Hawley.

[John A Stuart]

Maybe this smith, Nihonto Meikan

「長光」「備前国長船住左近将監

長光造」「備州長船住長光」「備州

国長船長光造」「備前園長船住長

光作」「備前園長船住長光」「備前

国長船長光L光忠孫。二代。嘉元。

備前。(能阿・嘉吉・長享・往昔・弘

治・永禄・和朝・慶長・寛永・光山・

大全・類字・系図’集録・備考・本

朝・校正・見出・土屋・新古・総覧・

随録・辞典・趣味・刀歴・刀美・古刀

-近代・会誌・講座・重万)「年紀」

新元元・二・三、応長元、正和四・

[Jean]

Thanks a lot All of You :

 

1- Andrew : Sorry, the mei(s) in the Nihontoclub base don't match

2 -Carlo, I know: unlisted in Hawley's

3 - John, any idea of what means this entry, except that they span between Eiroku to Keicho, my Japanese is very limited? Most of the mei listed have Osafune

[John A Stuart]

From what I understand Jean, (not good at sentence structure either) it talks about a few generations of the Eiroku and Keicho periods (you're right on there) and the type of work they did. I was considering that the Osafune may have been dropped in some cases. Or, at least this case. Otherwise?? There is more text but it got too tiring to transcribe. John

[Jean]

Thanks a lot John.

 

Unknown one

[Doug]

Jean,

 

I have a Bizenesque sword with the mei Bizen Kuni Ju Yoshihira and also had no luck in finding an example. In fact, I can find no examples of Bizen Kuni ju ANYONE (no osafune, yoshioka etc.)in the books I have (which isnt many but Koza, Zuikan and others)

What I did find is multiple examples of Bitchu Kuni Ju which got me to thinking about mei evolution and regional differences. I was hoping some senior members could weigh in generally on these differences and why even in the same or adjacent province,within the same time frame, you see this variability (from niji mei only to full name and nengo).

Sorry if this is a hijack Jean, I ask this questions because I get the sense that if a mei doesn't fit certain typical conventions there is a tendency to dismiss as gimei (perhaps rightly so) before even considering the sword itself. Curious to hear others opinions/experience.

 

Doug

 

Doug McLay

(formerly dkirkpatrick on the board)

[xxlotus8xx]

So aren't "Bizen" and "Soshu" the same Kanji?

(Disclaimer: If I just put my foot in my mouth it's ummm....my wife's fault!)

 

[John A Stuart]

備前国 Bizen no Kuni, 総州 Soshu. John

[Toryu2020]

相州　　Sôshû

The Meikan lists a Nagamitsu from the Ko-Mihara school circa 1389 - perhaps a much more interesting find than one of those old Osafune things...

-t

[Toryu2020]

Whoops! not Bishu Bizen,

Sorry don't know how I missed that. There is a Bizen (no) Kuni Nagamitsu from the Genroku era.

-t

[John A Stuart]

Hi Tom, which Soshu did he want? Shimosa or Sagami? John

[Jean]

Hi Tom,

 

Anymore info on this Bizen (no) Kuni Nagamitsu from the Genroku era?

 

Where does the info comes from?

 

Thanks in advance

[xxlotus8xx]

OK so maybe it was Sagami and Soshu with same kanji??

Hmmm..

note to self:

Check before post.

[Jean]

Ray,

 

Go to the kanji pages and check the Province names with their alternative, you may learn something

[xxlotus8xx]

Ray,

 

Go to the kanji pages and check the Province names with their alternative, you may learn something

 

Well excuse me. I thought I did from a earlier thread.

 

"This sword is signed Sagami no Ju Yukimitsu, 相模住行光 I see Stephen answered already. This sword should be checked by experts in hand. I see tsuba wear on the nakago and a good patina. It could be faked, but...?? It may not be Masamune Den if that applies to his father, but, I can't say for or against. I checked the one oshigata in Fujishiro's and the mei is clearly different and the mitsu nanori is especially written different as well he used Soshu not Sagami in his mei. Went through some other books and can not find a smith that signed in this fashion. John"

[Toryu2020]

Jean -

 

From the Meikan; Bizen (no) Kuni Nagamitsu (sig.) Bizen Province, Genroku, dated work from Genroku 13, further info may be found in the To-Ken Kaishi.

 

@Ray sounds like you need to start another thread. FYI I believe the March topic at the sword club is "Kamakura" so there will be many Soshu blades and signatures for comparison, and if you ask nice maybe some books on hand to help you with your research...

-t

[Jean]

Thanks a lot Tom :D

 

Ray,

 

I was referring to your :

 

so maybe it was Sagami and Soshu with same kanji

 

All provinces have a shorcut name with "Shu" at the end, so obviously there is an identical Kanji in Soshu and Sagami, I let you find which

 

http://www.jssus.org/nkp/kanji_for_provinces.html

[xxlotus8xx]

@Jean:

Is there a prize if I figure it out? j/k

 

@Tom:

Really looking forward to the March meeting!