Can someone Identify please

[Argoth]

This is what I believe to be a WWII bring back wrapped in leather with copper underneath the leather. It has no mekugi-ana. It says Tian xin or Tenshin. Kanji has multiple meanings but one of the them that keeps coming up is heavens heart. (or that's at least what I think it says) and says the date (Showa) on the other. I was wondering if someone could translate the date also can someone tell me if this a gift shop sword, made for battle, or a fake. Any information at all really would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.

Point of this post is for personal knowledge of the item in my possession.

[David Flynn]

I believe it's a Chinese Knockoff

[Argoth]

Is there a reasoning behind this because I know a vet brought it back I didnt purchase it?

[Stephen]

its dated Showa ju ni or 1927....looks like a gunto that was chromed by the GI

[Grey Doffin]

I believe the date is a lucky day in January of 1937. I also think this was chrome/nickel plated by the returning GI after he got back to the States.

Grey

[Argoth]

Please take the time to look at all of the pictures and let me know if only one of them is showing up.

[Mark Green]

I agree, It is a real sword that has been plated.

I have seen a few of these.

A polisher could remove the plating, but not sure it would be worth it for this one. Very likely not.

Or it has been put on the buffing wheel to the point of removing file marks???

Need better pics of the whole blade.

Mark G

[Argoth]

let me know if you need better pics

[Stephen]

chrome plating can be dipped to be removed but it also removes patina, from the other pix its not worthy of restoration. Id just leave it as it is a oddity

[Argoth]

Thank you for your info and time

[george trotter]

Hi,

The two character signature you show seems IMHO to be "TENSHIN" (Heavenly Heart). The tiny "w" stamp you show appears on a couple of examples of wartime swords...the meaning of the "w", who used it etc, have so far (I think) not been positively identified as per group...these include swords signed (slogan) "KOA ISSHIN" (One Heart for United Asia) of the Manchurian iron swords and "TAKE HISA" (unknown smith) and I think there is another name too.

I have never seen your "TENSHIN" before, so, even though it is in terrible buffed condition (sorry), it is of interest value to military gunto collectors and researchers as (if not a copy/fake) it would be the only known example of this maker/signature/ w stamp sword...certainly the only one I have seen.

Hope this helps, maybe someone has seen this before...?

Regards,

George.

[Mark Green]

Argoth,

It is very hard to tell from your pics. It does look platted in the new pics. Turn of you flash.

Just have a few bright lights at other angles. The glare may be messing with us.

Regardless, it is a wartime sword. Maybe not even made in Japan. There were smiths working in Manchuria, and maybe Korea as well.

Not sure on yours. Try a few no flash pics for us.

Mark G

[sudden]

is it just me ?

but i don't see a hole for the mekugi

 

Jan

[Argoth]

I will see If I can get a friend from work that is a photographer to come over and take some more and better pictures. I myself have never had anything done to the sword at all. I dont have the money (Walmart Emloyee) lol! I will see what I can do tomorrow.

[nsealrob]

Hallo Argoth,

 

There are a few points on this blade i find remarkable..... (Please, know i am a newbee...but you never know...)

 

First of all, as Jan allready mentioned before, there is no mekugi-ana...

Second... Does this blade have a Flat mune??? Or is it Maru-mune.....(Rounded back)

 

I am not sure, but the combination of the following;

 

No mekugi-ana, a flat mune, a rather slimm shinogi-ji a lack of yokote and an odd looking habaki..... makes me think, this blade is not "so to say" Japanese made...... Dispite the inscriptions of a date and "Tenshin".... At the other hand when there is a W-mark there might be some markings on the nakago-mune....

 

But at the and i must say... no-one knows what happend to this blade thrue history... and again... you never know!

 

Rob Kauffman

[David Flynn]

I will still go along with my first post. The sword is very crudely made. Also, the W stamp isn't the "Usual", type of W found on Japanese Gunto.

May have been made in an occupied country for Sympathisers

[Mark Green]

The more I look at this sword, the more I agree with Dave.

???

Mark G

[Argoth]

Just a thought. Could it be possible that this isnt plated at all and that this is a product of using Iron alloys containing Nickle and Chromium? In doing so it would withstand the elements better. People in another forum said they dont think that it was plated. It could potentially explain this so called buffed look.

[Bruno]

I would say buffed instead of chrome plated because it is easier to buff it.

 

I cannot tell for sure weather it is guenine showato or not, please post photos of the mounts it will help us to conclude.

[Argoth]

Other forum......Mantetsu-to. Rolled from Manchurian railway tracks. Differential hardening using oil, may have a fairly inactive hamon, but no hada.

[Argoth]

Anything more on the markings anyone?

[Argoth]

I Found 2 small N's on the hilt just under the Habaki. just saw them. Any meaning?

 

N

 

N

[Bruno]

Definitely not a Mantestuto!

[Stephen]

show us the ha and muni machi...area under the habaki, also pix of the habaki...did not take a good look at it the first time, there have been shrine swords in shirasaya that never got punched or drilled ana. This blade dont look like one and could be a repo...pix please.

[loiner1965]

i think like stephen that this sword is a shrine piece....unfortunately the nakago looks strange as its been highly buffed to remove all file marks and makes the mei look amaturist.....also the blade as been highly buffed too possibly on a buffing machine

[cabowen]

A blade made for a shrine will not have stamps of any sort on the nakago...

[Stephen]

there have been shrine swords in shirasaya that never got punched or drilled ana

 

to quote myself...I never implied this was that type of sword, just to state the fact about not having a hole makes it a fake.

[george trotter]

I Found 2 small N's on the hilt just under the Habaki. just saw them. Any meaning?

 

N

 

N

 

Argoth (Jon) From the pic of the "n" stamps near the habaki that you sent PM I have no hesitation in saying I think these are definitely mis-struck "w" stamps.

I must say, the shape of tang, style of mei writing, absence of a peg-hole all send out warning alarms...I think this sword is too "uncertain" to call...maybe if another by "this maker" turns up we can be a bit more positive. At this point I think it is wise to class it as just too poor in condition to identify.

Hope this helps, George.