Bry Shaw from Melbourne and a replacement prize request

[Brian]

..In connection with his prize donation. If anyone knows how to get hold of him, please drop me a pm as I cannot reach him via email. Possibly he is away on vacation?

 

Thanks,

Brian

[Brian]

Folks,

Still trying to get hold of him. I have tried 3 different emails with no success. I believe he is in Melbourne, so don't think he had flood troubles, but possibly..and I hope he is ok. I do have a problem though, as the nice Shinryo tsuba he donated needs to find its new home with a prize winner, and without contributors sending the prizes they offered, I have a big problem on my hands which is a matter of ethics for me.

May come down to me purchasing a nice tsuba to replace this prize, but defeats a lot of the fund raising to have to spend a couple of $100's.

So ideally, if anyone is able to make contact with him, would be much appreciated. As for as I know, most other prizes are on their way to the new owners.

 

Thanks,

Brian

[Justin Grant]

Brain-

 

I am of no use in contacting Bry, but should you need to traverse the path of replacement, I would be glad to offer a Tsuba or $ to help.

 

If of interest, let me know.

 

Justin

[Brian]

Justin,

I would hate to have to go that route, as I don't think it is fair, but if I don't come right any other way, I may contact you. Thanks very much! Still hoping he gets in touch.

 

Brian

[Justin Grant]

No worries. My offer is valid and stands. This place is a wealth of knowledge and I appreciate the ability to read and learn.

 

Justin

[moss]

Brian,

 

This might be a little outside the square but you could message him on Ebay.

He goes by ...sambobry.

That is perhaps a way or get into dispute resolution(It sends your details as well) and get his Phone number .

 

Make the call reverse charges of course

 

Cheers

Moss

[Brian]

Thanks Moss,

But no items for sale, and no current bids. I know he dealt with Ryujinswords recently, but I expect any email addresses will be the same as the ones I have tried already. Have one more to try, and then I am going to have to consider the prize withdrawn by him, and will have to source another suitable prize. Still hoping he has just forgotten or gotten busy or some other reasonable explanation.

 

Brian

[Chishiki]

Hi Brian, can you post a pic of this tsuba if you have one, just in case we need to look around for a replacement. Regards Mark

[Brian]

Mark,

Not going to be an easy one to replace. It is the Shinyro one, prize 19: http://www.militaria.co.za/draw2/Draw_Results.html

One of the other winners was attracted to it, and traded the winner for it, so I guess a big disappointment.

 

Brian

[Brian]

Ok, so it has been a month since the draw ended, and despite numerous emails and pm's (which seem to have been read) I have had no response from Bry Shaw in Melbourne. 4 Different email addresses, no reply at all.

Although painful for me to admit, I have to consider that he has done a runner, and has declined to offer up the tsuba he promised for the draw. This leaves me with quite an ethical issue, as I now need to find a new prize for a winner. Although the fellow prize winner who traded the winner for this prize was kind enough to say it is not an issue and he doesn't mind, I feel that I cannot leave it at that, and ethically, the winner must receive a nice prize as promised. Not an easy one to replace either, as this person is not a beginner, and is beyond the very entry level stuff we often find.

This is also not the responsibility of the members here to resolve, and i am loathe to ask for help. But in an effort to find another prize to replace that one, I am asking if any members here have any reasonable tsuba that I can purchase for a decent prize to replace the one in the draw.

Would be great to find another Shinyro one, but that is probably out. I don't expect a donation either...everyone was too kind during the draw anyways. So a nice price that wouldn't eat the raised monies too much would be fantastic.

 

I would hate to have to publicly view offers and accept or decline them here, so please could I ask anyone who has an offer to pm it it me, and I will try and select one based on the winners choice and/or my budget.

 

Thanks to anyone who assists, and sorry to even have to bring this up. Very uncomfortable

 

Brian

[drbvac]

Brian AND all other members:: While I appreciate the offer to replace the prize as you have not been able to make contact with the donor I and I hope everyone else can see NO REASON at all why it is your responsibility. If, considering the way it is set up, the winner is really upset, he or she should be upset with the donor - not NMB.

 

If anyone else thinks that perhaps this -- as unfortunate as it may be -- is completely beyond the control of the organizers and agrees with me please speak up.

 

If it were me - all things considered - I as a winner would just forget about it and wait till next year - easy for me to say as I never win anything - but come on guys - this aint up to the moderators!!

[SwordGuyJoe]

Brian,

I couldn't agree more with you. The admins all put in personal time to manage this board that we all enjoy, including a prize raffle, and it just isn't right that they have to forfeit funds to replace this piece. It is outside their realm of responsibility. I did win something this year and I would be just fine if this happened to me. I never donated in the hope that I would win something, but in trying to give back to a site that has given me knowledge. Also, if the winner has a real problem about losing their prize, I'd be more than willing to send mine to them with shipping on my dime. It's the least I can do and I just wouldn't feel comfortable with Brian dipping into what must me limited board funds to pay for this. It just isn't fair.

[peter]

Here here, why not offer the member loosing out on this occation a walk over, ie he gets the first prize drawn out next time whatever it may be as i,m sure next draw will have more donations and prizes than the last, just another option,

Peter

[Mark Green]

I agree with Dr. Brian.

Sucks, to think the guy may have buggered out, even worst, if he is that out of touch, due to health, accident, or murder. But, it sure as hell isn't Brian's, or the board fault.

I'm sure everyone would make their contributions regardless of the prizes.

Mark G

[cabowen]

I am the one who appears to have been stiffed. I have repeatedly told Brian that it is no big deal and that he should feel no personal responsibility. Of course I am disappointed but it is neither the first or last time that will happen! Really, perhaps I will have better luck next year....

[drbvac]

Chris:

 

Maybe you should get first crack at next years or extra entries all things considered but as disappointed as you may be I am glad you agree that the moderators have no liability for the prizes

 

I would also suggest that some clause be inserted prior to next year that will clearly absolve the moderators from any liability and that the prizes are between donors and winners alone.

[cabowen]

Chris:

 

Maybe you should get first crack at next years .

 

That is what I originally suggested to Brian but whatever he decides, I am ok with.....he is certainly not liable and I chalk it up to just bad luck.....appreciate all the feedback.

[Brian]

Hi Dr B and others,

I thought I had made it clear that the winner was ok with everything, and not putting any pressure on me at all, when I first wrote "..Although the fellow prize winner who traded the winner for this prize was kind enough to say it is not an issue and he doesn't mind..." but let me emphasize again that Chris has said from the beginning that this isn't an issue for him at all, and he is ok with anything I decide.

This isn't about pressure on me to sort it out..it is purely my own ethics that insist no winner should lose out.

Yes, I could offer a prize next time, or simply say "oh well..not my fault" or any number of other options..but really, the fact is that we had a prize draw, and I feel it is simply the right thing to do, to offer the prizes that were promised.

Therefore I do want to replace the prize, and with as little inconvenience to the members as possible. I did have an offer or 2 of monetary assistance, but would not like to go that route unless very necessary. Couple of tsuba offered, and please keep the pm's coming, even if it is something I need to purchase. Doesn't have to be "top" class, but nice. You know.nice.

 

Thanks for all of your support.

 

Brian

[Brian]

All,

Am considering a few offers, but also know that the winner has a taste for simple and nice tosho tsuba, so still weighing a few options. Does anyone have any nice tosho tsuba for sale? Mokume tsuba? Just throwing it out there in case...

 

Thanks,

Brian

[drbvac]

Brian you are a gentleman and a scholar:

 

That said can we or rather can you write up a " rule regarding the prizes offered and won are not the responsibility of the moderators or the board" for future draws? As well, Ihope that the purchase of the tsuba can be covered from the fund for the operation of the board as such and not our of your own pocket. In either case what is the paypal address please for donations ? < May be a good idea to have a link somewhere on the opening page for donation requests with the link

[johnb]

I'm happy to contribute to the cost of the tsuba should one become available. I was about to make a donation anyway.

By the way, in my opinion the way you're handling this, Brian, is more than admirable.

 

John

[gtstcactus]

Hey, I'm happy to contribute what I can to the fund..........

 

 

Jason

[Brian]

Thanks folks, still seeking a good replacement, although 2 offers did come through for tsuba, was hoping for something a bit closer. But those offers are very helpful in case I cannot find something to purchase.

 

I explained that I really don't want to make this about collecting more funds. Even if they go towards purchasing a replacement prize, I would not feel 100% right about doing that and would only consider that as a very last resort.

 

Will probably give it a few more days before making a decision.

 

Thanks,

Brian

[gtstcactus]

Thanks folks, still seeking a good replacement, although 2 offers did come through for tsuba, was hoping for something a bit closer. But those offers are very helpful in case I cannot find something to purchase.

 

I explained that I really don't want to make this about collecting more funds. Even if they go towards purchasing a replacement prize, I would not feel 100% right about doing that and would only consider that as a very last resort.

 

Will probably give it a few more days before making a decision.

 

Thanks,

Brian

 

I think I would speak for most here in saying we'll support whatever you decide Brian. However the offers made are just away of showing support for you and what you do. I also understand where your coming from and that should be respected too...

 

Jason

[drbvac]

I certainly agree with Jason and others - a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do - however - lets make sure in setting up for next year that the liability isn't on Brian or anyone else next year other than the donors and winners. My suggestion to have the link for donations on the home page was not specifically related to the tsuba purchase - more like the glass box inside the door of a museum - folks can drop off some loose change or a donation every once in a while instead of all at once - perhaps you recieved an answer to a question you have been looking for for years - chuck 10 bucks in the box !

[Brian]

In the "For Sale or Trade" section, the first post is about how to contribute voluntarily if you sold something or otherwise. There is a donation link there, and contributions are always very much appreciated.

 

However I am still not sure about what I will do next year. When prizes are involved, Paypal tends to get very edgy and if they even slightly consider it a raffle or anything but a pure donation, well....then they might just do something really nasty like lock my account, limit my access, threaten to close my account, and maybe even get me to sign my life away saying that if I ever even slightly step wrong, I will lose my account and my money. Might do that.... (did do that)

Next year...well, we'll see in a year's time I guess. *sigh* Any contributions cannot have anything to do with a prize or anything in return though please folks.

 

Thanks,

Brian

[Brian]

A very big thanks to Justin Grant for his kind donation of a replacement tsuba. Although a suitable Shinyro tsuba couldn't be found, Chris gracefully accepted a lower offer, which Justin wouldn't take any payment for. There were also very generous offers from Mark, John C, Jamie and others that offered donations if necessary (Which ultimately I didn't need to make use of) Thanks to everybody. I will have to come up with a way to prevent this next year if Paypal even makes it at all possible.

 

Brian

[drbvac]

Brian:

 

I am not sure what the problem may or could be with paypal as anyone making a donation thats that -- if they also get an entry - no one needs to talk about it.

 

In terms of the raffle itself, as the prizes and the winners are members and you are a facilitator, all we need is a rule that the donors and prize winners can contact each other after the draw. Once you have done the magic calculation your work ends and the rest is out of the NMB and with the members. Donors when making the prize donation also agree to pay to ship to the winner so you certainly shouldn't have any liability at all.

 

Donors after all are not donating prizes for any reason other than to help the board and if they don't want to pay shipping etc, they can sell the offered prize and then donate the money!

 

PAYPAL will only see donations and there shouldnt be any reference to prizes or anything else.

[Brian]

Dr B,

Paypal only handled transactions marked clearly as donations, and yet they still sent me a link to my own prize page, called it a raffle in spite of my explanations why it wasn't, and nearly took away my funds and account. So they have their "ways" and also see things as they deem fit. No getting around that, so we will handle things differently next year, and make sure nothing can be deemed a raffle. Donations are fine with them though, there just can't be any prizes. Odd...over 39 countries represented here on the NMB, and they have to follow the rules of one. :|

Anyways, will cross that bridge when we come to it. Still going to always make sure everyone gets their prize or one similar. Ethics..not duties.

I hope all other prizes have been posted by now. Anyone not receive theirs?

 

Brian