Brian Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Japanese-Sw ... 3f0632d3ea Gee..nice description, and good to see "...The very sharp blade is in fine recent polish with no scratches, nicks, rust, dirt etc. at all , the blade is also free of forging flaws" Hmm...and then.. "however the cutting edge has scattered tiny hagire cracks, otherwise a beautiful and strong blade" So other than numerous fatal and dangerous flaws, it is still strong. :? Can't help but feel that many don't really read descriptions very well. Bury anything somewhere in the middle of a description, and some will just skim over it. READ carefully. Brian Quote
ububob Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 Well said but there is a big differnce between reading and comprehending. I will stop lest I wander off into a lament about the appalling rate of functional illiteracy here in the US. Quote
Kevin Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 The description is, to my mind, misleading. Lots of stuff in English extolling the sword's virtues, and then a bit of technical Japanese when it comes to fatal and potentially dangerous flaws, which is also buried in the middle of the text, so easily skipped over. You also have to look through the pictures carefully. I can only hope that the buyer understood what hagire are, and that the sword has hagire, otherwise there is going to be one very disappointed customer when they do realise that it has cracks. I also hope that they don't intend to use the sword. I asked my girlfriend for her opinion of this listing. Her opinion was rather stronger than my comments above, and along the lines of Kevin Quote
hybridfiat Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 Am I being picky or does the hamon look like someone has used acid on it? Quote
Stephen Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 Steve i dont see it. think its not that out of line, near mint blade and mounts...seen worse deals. Quote
sanjuro Posted January 10, 2011 Report Posted January 10, 2011 Quote near mint blade and mounts... Hmmmmm. Not that sure there is such a thing as a near mint blade with hagire. Its a bit of a contradiction in terms dont you think? A blade with hagire is fatally flawed. Would that be like having a cashier's cheque for a million dollars with a missing signature? :D Quote
hybridfiat Posted January 10, 2011 Report Posted January 10, 2011 I am aware of my very junior standing so I will not be at all offended to be shown to be completely wrong. This is a pic that show what 'looks' like an acid treatment. Ive seen similar effects on chinese blades but never on a Japanese blade. Note the swirls that stand out like dog's bollocks unlike the usual calm appearance of a traditionaly polished hada, particulaly in the hamon. Must add that I cant see any hagire that transect the hamon and therefore represent fatal damage. Am I wrong? Quote
Stephen Posted January 10, 2011 Report Posted January 10, 2011 well im red in the face that post should have been here... viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9347 sorry alot on my mind. Quote
Grey Doffin Posted January 10, 2011 Report Posted January 10, 2011 If a sword had a ha-giri close to the machi the blade could be shortened, making the ha-giri disappear into the nakago, and therefore the crack wouldn't be fatal. A ha-giri of any length elsewhere on the blade, and especially in the monouchi, is fatal. Grey Quote
sanjuro Posted January 10, 2011 Report Posted January 10, 2011 Steve. Hagire do not need to transect the hamon in order to be considered a fatal flaw. Hagire are either a forging fault or a combat damage, in either case a stress fracture. Any fracture of the steel within the tempered area and at right angles to the hamon from any cause will likely result in breakage of the blade at that point. I find this blade very suspicious....... the etching within the hamon; the multiple hagire, speak of a fake to me. Maybe I'm just being paranoid. Quote
hybridfiat Posted January 10, 2011 Report Posted January 10, 2011 :D I did wonder Stephen :lol: Quote
Ted Tenold Posted January 11, 2011 Report Posted January 11, 2011 Brian is right; read carefully. This kind of word play silliness is not isolated to Ebay. Read the descriptions throroughly, and demand updated condition reports. Ask questions and if answers sound like cow dung, it probably is. A rather prominent auction house provided an updated condition report on a sword just before commencing bidding on a piece about a year and a half ago. This updated condition report noted that after further examination there had been found a "transverse crack" in the cutting edge. No matter what you call it whether, hagire, transverse crack, heat treating feature, linear separation of molecular bond continuity, or whatever... it's the precursor to a catastrophic failure. They're considered a fatal flaw because of that. So calling this blade "strong" is pretty bold. Quote
Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini Posted January 11, 2011 Report Posted January 11, 2011 Jean said: O Hada Hamon Ted Tenold said: linear separation of molecular bond continuity Great new glossary. Quote
Andi B. Posted January 12, 2011 Report Posted January 12, 2011 Thank you all for posting this - i'ts good beeing reminded to read and examine images of these offers very carefully. Keeping this in mind you can see on many of the detail pictures a crack (or at least a dust fluff :? perpendicular to the ha...). Quote
Jean Posted January 12, 2011 Report Posted January 12, 2011 Quote Well said but there is a big differnce between reading and comprehending As there is a big difference between hearing and listening Quote
sanjuro Posted January 13, 2011 Report Posted January 13, 2011 Andi I counted two, possibly three hagire in just one photograph. Sorry ....... I didn't realise until now that the Japanese term Hagire was translated in English to 'dust fluff', (or in this case, multiple parallel perpendicular dust fluffs). :D One never ceases to learn does one? Quote
sanjuro Posted January 13, 2011 Report Posted January 13, 2011 I notice that on this sword there are ashi that extend to the ha. I also notice that the hagire ('Dust fluffs' if you prefer), do not coincide with what would be a weaker spot in the hamon. To me this is a curious combination of flaws. I have always thought that ashi served a practical purpose on a blade, but in order to serve that purpose, ie; the reduction or limitation of chipping, were not supposed to go to the extreme edge. I'd like to hear from others about this Quote
Lee Bray Posted January 13, 2011 Report Posted January 13, 2011 This is a modification I made to a tsuba to fit a sword. The copper insert in the nakago ana is friction fit so no damage to the tsuba is done at all. Quote
ububob Posted January 15, 2011 Report Posted January 15, 2011 A clever and well executed solution. Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.