Is that all?

[Brian]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Japanese-Sw ... 3f0632d3ea

Gee..nice description, and good to see "...The very sharp blade is in fine recent polish with no scratches, nicks, rust, dirt etc. at all , the blade is also free of forging flaws"

Hmm...and then.. "however the cutting edge has scattered tiny hagire cracks, otherwise a beautiful and strong blade"

So other than numerous fatal and dangerous flaws, it is still strong. :?

Can't help but feel that many don't really read descriptions very well. Bury anything somewhere in the middle of a description, and some will just skim over it.

READ carefully.

 

Brian

[ububob]

Well said but there is a big differnce between reading and comprehending. I will stop lest I wander off into a lament about the appalling rate of functional illiteracy here in the US.

[Kevin]

The description is, to my mind, misleading. Lots of stuff in English extolling the sword's virtues, and then a bit of technical Japanese when it comes to fatal and potentially dangerous flaws, which is also buried in the middle of the text, so easily skipped over. You also have to look through the pictures carefully. I can only hope that the buyer understood what hagire are, and that the sword has hagire, otherwise there is going to be one very disappointed customer when they do realise that it has cracks. I also hope that they don't intend to use the sword.

 

I asked my girlfriend for her opinion of this listing. Her opinion was rather stronger than my comments above, and along the lines of

 

Kevin

[hybridfiat]

Am I being picky or does the hamon look like someone has used acid on it?

[Stephen]

Steve i dont see it.

think its not that out of line, near mint blade and mounts...seen worse deals.

[sanjuro]

near mint blade and mounts...

 

Hmmmmm. Not that sure there is such a thing as a near mint blade with hagire. Its a bit of a contradiction in terms dont you think? A blade with hagire is fatally flawed. Would that be like having a cashier's cheque for a million dollars with a missing signature? :D

[hybridfiat]

I am aware of my very junior standing so I will not be at all offended to be shown to be completely wrong.

This is a pic that show what 'looks' like an acid treatment. Ive seen similar effects on chinese blades but never on a Japanese blade. Note the swirls that stand out like dog's bollocks unlike the usual calm appearance of a traditionaly polished hada, particulaly in the hamon.

Must add that I cant see any hagire that transect the hamon and therefore represent fatal damage. Am I wrong?

[Stephen]

well im red in the face that post should have been here... viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9347

 

sorry alot on my mind.

[Grey Doffin]

If a sword had a ha-giri close to the machi the blade could be shortened, making the ha-giri disappear into the nakago, and therefore the crack wouldn't be fatal. A ha-giri of any length elsewhere on the blade, and especially in the monouchi, is fatal.

Grey

[sanjuro]

Steve.

 

Hagire do not need to transect the hamon in order to be considered a fatal flaw. Hagire are either a forging fault or a combat damage, in either case a stress fracture. Any fracture of the steel within the tempered area and at right angles to the hamon from any cause will likely result in breakage of the blade at that point.

 

I find this blade very suspicious....... the etching within the hamon; the multiple hagire, speak of a fake to me. Maybe I'm just being paranoid.

[Jean]

O Hada Hamon

[hybridfiat]

:D I did wonder Stephen :lol:

[Ted Tenold]

Brian is right; read carefully. This kind of word play silliness is not isolated to Ebay. Read the descriptions throroughly, and demand updated condition reports. Ask questions and if answers sound like cow dung, it probably is. A rather prominent auction house provided an updated condition report on a sword just before commencing bidding on a piece about a year and a half ago. This updated condition report noted that after further examination there had been found a "transverse crack" in the cutting edge. No matter what you call it whether, hagire, transverse crack, heat treating feature, linear separation of molecular bond continuity, or whatever... it's the precursor to a catastrophic failure. They're considered a fatal flaw because of that. So calling this blade "strong" is pretty bold.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

O Hada Hamon

 

linear separation of molecular bond continuity

 

Great new glossary.

[Andi B.]

Thank you all for posting this - i'ts good beeing reminded to read and examine images of these offers very carefully.

Keeping this in mind you can see on many of the detail pictures a crack (or at least a dust fluff :? perpendicular to the ha...).

[Jean]

Well said but there is a big differnce between reading and comprehending

As there is a big difference between hearing and listening

[sanjuro]

Andi

 

I counted two, possibly three hagire in just one photograph. Sorry ....... I didn't realise until now that the Japanese term Hagire was translated in English to 'dust fluff', (or in this case, multiple parallel perpendicular dust fluffs). :D

 

One never ceases to learn does one?

[ububob]

One would hope not.

[sanjuro]

I notice that on this sword there are ashi that extend to the ha. I also notice that the hagire ('Dust fluffs' if you prefer), do not coincide with what would be a weaker spot in the hamon. To me this is a curious combination of flaws.

I have always thought that ashi served a practical purpose on a blade, but in order to serve that purpose, ie; the reduction or limitation of chipping, were not supposed to go to the extreme edge. I'd like to hear from others about this

[Lee Bray]

This is a modification I made to a tsuba to fit a sword.

The copper insert in the nakago ana is friction fit so no damage to the tsuba is done at all.

[ububob]

A clever and well executed solution.