Kitae ware question

[PKDA]

Good Evening Folks,

 

I've been bouncing around these pages for about a year now. I've learned alot, and have started to figure out how much there is I don't know. I guess its a step in the right direction. Hopefully you all can help me on this question.

 

I've attached a few pictures of a toshihide gendaito I purchased a few years ago. The mei states that it was made with cannon steel from the battleship Mikasa. The person listing it flagged it as having some kitae ware. His photos showed them, but not at the magnification I'm using. My question is this... Just how severe of a set of flaws are these? Total deal breakers? Bad but tolerable? Or somewhere in between?

 

Like many people the crappy economy is finally catching up to me. In going through my collection, this is one of the swords I'd like to sell. I'm hoping to get an idea of the severity of these flaws so I can accurately describe them in any listings. Any help you can provide will be most appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Kevin Perry

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Kevin,

I would say bad but not fatal. Ware' in the yakiba are worse than the same above the tempered area.

Grey

[Mark Green]

To Me, those look like rust pitting, that couldn't be removed when Last polished.

 

Would that count as Kitae ware?? I'm thinking kuchikomi. Rust dimples.

[cabowen]

I agree with Mark. Those are deep rust pits that weren't removed when it was polished. Sabi.

 

See my comments regarding value in the other thread you posted on this sword.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Chris, I'm a bit concerned on this one. Seems the upper part of a possibly larger Kitaeware still to be revealed. The fact that all the rust-pits seems located in (almost) the same area of the blade on both sides is not a good indicator as well. I could be wrong, of course, but I would look at it in hand with a magnifier before buying.

 

Mikasa-To ? Interesting...

 

[cabowen]

You can often see pitting like this on both sides of the blade when the blade was used to cut something and then put away without cleaning.

[Surfson]

And often the rust can be localized in the monouchi when a sword is stored in a damp place standing up for a prolonged period. My only wonder is when it might have been polished and by whom? If it is rust pitting, then it has had a polish after its original polish. If that is true, then it should not be ububa. Is it sharp in the first inch or two of the cutting edge above the habaki?

[cabowen]

It often takes several polishes to remove ububa completely....

[PKDA]

Originally posted the response below in the Military Swords of Japan section. I messed up with the first post and didn't realize it showed up there. I will keep my responses here for the rest of this discussion.

 

"Thanks for the information gentlemen. I had never thought to consider the idea these had been caused by rust. This theory would tend to be backed up by the fact that this blade is in a new (relatively?) shirasaya. The shirasaya is very well made and has almost a vacuum seal on it when closed. It struck me that someone obviously still considered the sword valuable when they made it. Possible scenario... the blade was polished down to the furthest extent deemed reasonable by the polisher and the new shirasaya was made for it?"

 

Following up on a couple of the comments in here I have included two more images. The first is a detail of the kitaeware-2 flaw. You can see additional dimples heading away from the kissaki, would this be indicative of the "rust removal" concept? Second image is of the nakago at the machi. I believe this shows the "signature" marks from the polisher. I'm not sure if this helps at all in detirmining the "who and when" questions regarding the last polish. Overall the polish is very clean with crisp lines and none of the waves I've seen in some wartime polished blades. Final picture is of the sword and shirasaya.

 

Again, thanks for the help.

 

Kevin P.

[cabowen]

I think it is safe to say that the blade was repolished post war and that the togi left the deepest corrosion pits in the blade. The first picture shows classic pitting. Notice the smaller pits further up and along the edge. They become larger as you move toward the kissaki. Many times when a blade is stored point down condensation, etc., will move down the blade and pool towards the tip. Other times, as noted earlier, the sword was used to cut something and not properly cleaned afterwards.