Translation help

[steve l]

I have two Japanese sword's which I know very little about, I have some information that I have been given from another forum.

 

I was told to look at this forum and I might get help with the translation of the markings on this sword, the other has no markings.

 

Thanks for any help Steve.

[Nobody]

I could be wrong, but it does not look to be a genuine Nihonto.

 

The inscription may be 香鬼 (or 香魂), which does not make sense to me.

香 – scent

鬼 – demon

魂 - soul

 

 

Edit:

I do not know if this has something to do with the inscription or not, but I found that 香魂 (Scented Souls) is the name of a lake in the following film.

Ref. Woman Sesame Oil Maker

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woman_Sesame_Oil_Maker

[Stephen]

is it just me or does it look stamped instead of cut?

[steve l]

Would it help if I post pictures of the sword, if so what section of the forum should I use.

 

Steve

[John A Stuart]

Use the Nihonto section. John

[steve l]

I have posted the inscription on the handle on the general discussion forum, here are some pictures of the sword.

 

Sorry about the picture quality but its snowing outside.

 

Thanks Steve.

[steve l]

I have posted some pictures of the sword.

 

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9328

[John A Stuart]

I believe you have a replica gun to. John

[Grey Doffin]

Not 100% sure but I'm leaning heavily towards replica/fake.

Grey

[steve l]

Oh dear, that's upset me . I am going to an arms fair at Stockport here in the UK next week if I remember right the last time I went there was a Japanese Sword club who had a stall, I cannot remember the clubs name but I will take the sword and see what they think.

 

I have tried to take a closeup of the blade but its not very good.

[drbvac]

Afraid it is not looking good but would encourage you to take it to where you stated that you could get an expert opinion. The steel on the blade doesnt look any better than the signature on the tang.

[steve l]

I took the sword to the show today and some very nice guys from the Northern To-Ken Society inspected the sword and to be honest I still don't know 100% if the sword is fake or not, some thought it was ok but low quality a couple said the handle and some fittings were original but not the blade one said he thought it was a fake but the best one he had ever seen. I did get some good news on my other sword.

 

Thanks to everyone for your help.

 

Steve

[Bruno]

I think it is guenine, at least the tsuka is. So if the tsuka is original to the sword, the sword might be guenine.

[IanB]

All, Steve who posted this query brought the sword to a recent arms fair. The following are the observations made by one of the members of the Northern Token:

 

The (part) inscription was, as suggested, stamped rather than cut or engraved. We agree with the translation already on the NMB - first kanji = incense/perfume, second kanji= either Oni or Spirit. Not seen by us before but the hollows of the stamping were uncorroded, clean and black in colour.

A modern stamp?

The nakago definitely looked to have been chemically coloured, the yasurime were very irregular with no rust present: the jiri and overall shape were, however, not abnormal in any way and the machi seemed correct.

The habaki did not look at all to be a Japanese product; definitely not traditionally made but no indications on age.

The tsuka assembly did appear as real and convincing as many other Shin Gunto with Ito of poor quality and (now) in poor condition, the Fuchi and Kabuto Gane are indeed low quality castings (though the Fuchi did have correct Tenjo Gane) the menuki were likewise: as an ensemble they were really no better or worse than a lot of Gunto fittings appear these days. The tsuba was, again, a poor quality casting but not so bad as to definitely categorise it as a Chinese fake (we have all seen - and perhaps even owned- similar!) Interestingly, the blade fitted the Tsuka perfectly and they did seem to have been made for each other. The Saya was tightly strapped into a leather cover of absolutely normal design, but the leather was suspiciously dried out and 'dusty' - something which can often be seen on Chinese fakes in an attempt to 'age' them. There was no opportunity to disassemble the cover and inspect the wood of the Saya, but the inside of the Saya was very dirty and showed signs of cutting (blade being constantly shoved in and out). Finally the blade.

There was nothing unusual about the sugata and the main problem seemed to be that the whole Kissaki looked badly distorted - or was it just badly repaired/filed to reshape? The condition: slight rusting, much discoloured and with some light scratching over most areas, made it impossible to see hada but a weak, rather thin and poorly delineated hamon was visible on much of the length. This did not extend over the Kissaki. There were clearly visible diagonal file marks on both planes of the upper half of the Mune- almost like Takanoha yasurime!

Possibilities:

It could be a late production, cheaply produced Gunto that has had some really rough treatment - and perhaps even some replacement parts added along the way? (This is being very generous)

 

Discounting the Saya, (which would not matter anyway) this might suggest something made by an Armourer on active service, to replace a broken blade but salvaging at least some of the parts of the original for re-use. (This is not 100% out of the question.)

 

Wild Card: It might be a complete Chinese fake using some genuine parts!!!? (Lots of captured swords in China at one time.) This might make it the most ‘convincing’ fake we have seen so far!

 

Our recommendation? With some apparently genuine parts and the good blade- to- tsuka fit it has to raise at least some doubts but, for now, treat it as a fake, the probability is high that it is!

 

This might be seen as devoting too much time and space to what is probably rubbish but it is important to be able to recognise what you see as either rubbish or a hidden jewel, and some may profit from what we saw in this item.

 

Ian bottomley

[Basho12]

I certainly appreciate the information, if for no other reason to remind me that spotting a fake isn't always as straightforward as I sometimes think. I, too, was sure the mei was stamped, but there was much else that looked "right" if not high quality, so the discussion has been very helpful.

[steve l]

Thanks for the comments Ian, it is nice to know I have a really good quality fake :D. You did cheer me up with the good news on my other sword, if I can get some cash together at sometime I will have it polished.

 

I would like to say thanks to all who helped with the info on my sword.

 

Steve