Hello, Introduction, Questions & Pictures of a Sword

[bibox]

My name is Thomas B. and I am not a Japanese sword enthusiast per se, at least not until last night. I appreciate them but the expense of getting into one kept me from putting much mental energy into it. I collect WW2 martial knives and went to an auction yesterday where some were going up. There were also swords there, US Civil War, Spanish, Philipines, Arabian, and one other. I did not get any of the knives, I did however come home with what I think is a Japanese sword.

 

I went to the auction preview and took a cursory look at the items and saw it. Metal scabbard, remains of a leather "sheath" that the scabbard appeared to fit into, a couple shaped spacers wired to the blade tang, and the blade itself. There is no handle. At first look it appeared the blade did not fit the scabbard at all as it did not seat fully into it. But it was just a matter of pushing it in and it fits perfectly. Further, the scabbard looked way too Western to be with the blade and someone there commented that it was a pieced together item. I have to admit that it did look that way to me as well until I saw the characters on the tang. There were also some outrageous fantasy samurai swords there and that may have tainted anyone really looking at it seriously. When it finally came up no one bid, the opening bid dropped, dropped again, dropped again, dropped again, dropped again, and I bid, and got it.

 

Pictures are below. I spent several hours trying to find similar and I think it may be an 1886 pattern Kyu-Gunto. I would like to know if anyone can decipher the markings on the tang, what the approximate age or period is, is it hand or machine made, if it is a fool's errand to look for the correct handle, and what I should do, if anything, to the mild surface corrosion the blade? The one thing that is throwing me off is the copper spacer. To my eye it looks like one used for a sword with a tsuba vs. the western style handle on a Kyu-Gunto. The wire holding the 2 spacers to the tang was quite old so my belief is that the parts were together for some time. Beyond this I don't know anything and I am not really sure I even know that. I don't need to be let down gently if it is a Chinese or Indian fake either. I did not buy it to resell it and the price was low enough that it won't hurt if it is. I guess why I gambled on it was the remote chance that I might, almost accidentally, actually end up with a genuine period blade.

 

I will greatly appreciate any and all comments.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With effort, the hilt piece can be slid down the tang -

 

 

Aluminum spacer has "26" stamped into it, other side is reeded around edge -

 

 

Scabbard is dent free and steel construction -

 

 

Blade is ~36.25" overall, ~27.875" tip-tang piece, both measured linear, blade is fairly sharp from hilt to ~8" up then dull to tip -

 

 

Corrosion, worst side -

 

 

Leather has shrunk, all stitching blown out -

 

[John A Stuart]

Please sign your given first name for addressing you. This sword is signed Mutsu no Kami Kaneyasu and if a legitimate signature a valuable sword by a good smith. Throw the other junk away and get a professional opinion. Made around early Edo period. If this is legit I would get it in a shirasaya at least. I suspect you know that the patina on the tang must be left alone and the blade lightly oiled. Congrats, John

[Brian]

Yep, it's real, and pre-war.

That tip (kissaki) area looks very narrow though, has it been worked on at some point or polished down? A lot would depend if the temper line is still intact and not running off anywhere.

Also, just a note, but this is incredibly straight?? Not much sori (curve) at all?

I think you have the scabbard identified right, but it doesn't go with this sword, and keeping it in there will likely damage the blade. It is possible that this sword had been remounted for WW2 in those Kyu-Gunto mounts and scabbard, but for more likely that the combat cover you have is for another scabbard that is now gone but came with this sword. Someone will advise you how to preserve it, but for now just wipe it over with a light oil too keep it from rusting.

 

Brian

[cabowen]

-The reason it is dull in the tip area is because it has been filed and reshaped, either because it was damaged at some point or someone did so to fit it into the scabbard. In either case, not a good thing....

[Mark]

I think the scabbard may be the correct one. It looks like a 1905 Russo army sword with a missing handle. You mention the blade is not sharp after the inital 8" and the pictures make it look like it has been ground down or reshaped. If so then as noted by Brian it may be beyond restoration and of little value, but if the blade is restorable then it has upside. Where are you located? it would be good to show it to a few knowlegable people and get some opinions

[bibox]

Thank you for the detail. I'll check one box, it is a period blade. I am pretty happy about that but a bit overwhelmed by the rest. I will wipe it down and put it away for now.

 

Here's a shot of the tip from the other side. When the light isn't streaming through the windows I'll take another as it is washing out the detail -

 

 

Yes, the blade is very straight, @ ~18.50" the gap is less than ~0.375". A sword like that would me more suited for thrusting rather than slashing, yes?

 

[bibox]

I think the scabbard may be the correct one. It looks like a 1905 Russo army sword with a missing handle. You mention the blade is not sharp after the inital 8" and the pictures make it look like it has been ground down or reshaped. If so then as noted by Brian it may be beyond restoration and of little value, but if the blade is restorable then it has upside. Where are you located? it would be good to show it to a few knowlegable people and get some opinions

 

I am in MA, near Boston. As far as value, it cost me very little. If it is indeed genuine, then it was modified for martial use. That definitely fits into my own collecting interest so I would be inclined to hunt down the parts to complete it. So if it is a 1905, is it a Kyu-Gunto and would it be naval or army related?

[John A Stuart]

I don't think this sword was modified as a kyu-gunto. Look at the nakago. The scabbard may fit co-incidently. The seppa are wrong for kyu-gunto. It seems to me to be odd parts given with the sword. I wish for a better lit pic of the boshi. There were very straight swords produced early Edo. I wouldn't write this sword off from these pics for sure. John

[bibox]

 

I wish for a better lit pic of the boshi.

 

The boshi is the tip area, correct?

 

Thomas B.

[John A Stuart]

Yes.

[Mark]

maybe "put together" but i have seen several Russo swords that the officer changed to '35 pattern by changing handle and tsuba but keeping the scabbard... anyway does not matter much. There is/was a sword club in the Boston area, maybe you can track them down and attend a meeting

[bibox]

 

If this is legit I would get it in a shirasaya at least.

 

I suspect you know that the patina on the tang must be left alone and the blade lightly oiled. Congrats, John

 

My son is in martial arts and suggested putting it in a basic handle as soon as he saw it apart. Are they custom-made to the blade or sold generically and you fit the peg(s) yourself?

 

I figured that on the tang patina but wanted to be sure. Under the hilt piece there is some minor corrosion (picture later). It looks to be surface as it is orange or dark/shiny in appearance. Is it OK to oil the tang and this area or should they be left alone?

 

Thanks for tolerating the uber-noob questions.

 

Thomas B.

[John A Stuart]

No worries, I am excited by the possibilities this sword may have. If you look down the blade towards a single incandescent light source and twist the sword back and forth and up and down you should see a hazy line, hamon, where the edge was differentially hardened. It may take some time at first until you get the hang of it. Once you have this spotted, track it to see if it is continuous along the whole length of the polished part including the boshi and look for a continuous line to turn back there as well. A gentle wipe down with a microfibre cloth to remove oil will make this more clear. Afterwards re-oil. You may oil the tang to remove the active orange rust, but, it should be removed with a cloth to prevent oil rusting. Once condition issues are assessed then is the time to decide if further money should be spent. John

[Grey Doffin]

Thomas,

Here is a link to a care and etiquette brochure: http://www.nbthk-ab.org/Etiquette.htm

You can apply a very thin coat of machine oil to red rusty spots but don't attempt any other repairs; anything you try may cause damage and loss of value. You won't be able to purchase a handle to fit your sword; they are custom fit to each blade. One reason why the last few inches of the blade is dull may have to do with pushing it all the way into a scabbard that doesn't fit; I'd leave it less than fully in rather than risk further damaging the edge.

The blade needs some care to be taken; as is it is vulnerable to breakage. At the very least it needs a shira-saya (plain wooden mounts). You have to decide if you want to keep it and be the one to spend the necessary money, or if you'd like to sell it to someone who will have the work done. In the mean time, be very careful; these swords break easily if mishandled.

Grey

[bibox]

No worries, I am excited by the possibilities this sword may have. If you look down the blade towards a single incandescent light source and twist the sword back and forth and up and down you should see a hazy line, hamon, where the edge was differentially hardened. It may take some time at first until you get the hang of it. Once you have this spotted, track it to see if it is continuous along the whole length of the polished part including the boshi and look for a continuous line to turn back there as well. A gentle wipe down with a microfibre cloth to remove oil will make this more clear. Afterwards re-oil. You may oil the tang to remove the active orange rust, but, it should be removed with a cloth to prevent oil rusting. Once condition issues are assessed then is the time to decide if further money should be spent. John

 

Thomas,

Here is a link to a care and etiquette brochure: http://www.nbthk-ab.org/Etiquette.htm

You can apply a very thin coat of machine oil to red rusty spots but don't attempt any other repairs; anything you try may cause damage and loss of value. You won't be able to purchase a handle to fit your sword; they are custom fit to each blade. One reason why the last few inches of the blade is dull may have to do with pushing it all the way into a scabbard that doesn't fit; I'd leave it less than fully in rather than risk further damaging the edge.

The blade needs some care to be taken; as is it is vulnerable to breakage. At the very least it needs a shira-saya (plain wooden mounts). You have to decide if you want to keep it and be the one to spend the necessary money, or if you'd like to sell it to someone who will have the work done. In the mean time, be very careful; these swords break easily if mishandled.

Grey

 

Can you make a specific oil brand recommendation? I will keep it out of the scabbard, wipe it down, and put it away. After looking up the swordsmith and seeing the approximate age, well, it's all a bit fantastic to say the least. I am going to call the Higgins Armory later today and see if they can put me in front of anyone who can authenticate it. I did not come here to ask for a value, I really don't want to know. The reason is deep down I have always wanted to own one of these. Blissful ignorance might be a good thing in this regard. I am most appreciative of the hospitality you've shown me and the knowledge you have provided on it, thank you.

 

 

Thomas B.

 

I will take some more pictures later and post them.

[Eric H]

Comparison Mutsu no Kami Kaneyasu

 

Eric

[John A Stuart]

I just wanted to illustrate how straight these swords were at times. MUTSUDAIJYO MIYOSHI NAGAMICHI TOSHIRO

KANBUN 10th KANOE INU FEB (1670) John

[bibox]

 

I wish for a better lit pic of the boshi.

 

I do too, this one sucks. I spent a half hour playing with light and this thing is kacking my camera. It does not want to focus on it. I have about 10 minutes in the AM where the sunlight is perfect. I will try again tomorrow.

 

Also, after looking at the blade under a light bulb I think I see that the hamon follows the curve of the blade at the tip on one side. It is very faint. In other words, it seems to track along the blade shape at the end. Does that make sense? On the other side though I could not see it at all. To be honest I am not completely sure I am interpreting what I am seeing correctly. I definitely need a pro to look at it.

 

Thomas B.

 

[bibox]

Comparison Mutsu no Kami Kaneyasu

 

Eric

 

The characters look to be the same type but there are also significant differences in style.

 

Did the swordsmith sign each one personally or did others who worked under him sign too, like a logo?

 

Thomas B.

[estcrh]

 

The boshi is the tip area, correct?

 

Thomas B.

Here is a link to a glossary of Japanese sword terms, it might be of help to you.

[bibox]

 

Here is a link to a glossary of Japanese sword terms, it might be of help to you.

 

I will appreciate that link for sure.

 

Thomas B.

[Jean]

http://world.choshuya.co.jp/explanation/index.htm

[Jamie]

http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/glossary.htm

[estcrh]

Here is a link to a glossary of Japanese sword terms, it might be of help to you.

I will try that again http://members.shaw.ca/nihontonut/glossary.html

[hybridfiat]

A tip on http://www.ksky.ne.jp is to use a small slip of printed paper resting on the blade to give the camera something to focus on. That site is also a goldmine of information for the beginner

[DirkO]

A tip on http://www.ksky.ne.jp is to use a small slip of printed paper resting on the blade to give the camera something to focus on. That site is also a goldmine of information for the beginner

 

You mean http://www.ksky.ne.jp./~sumie99/ :-)

[Eric H]

Did the swordsmith sign each one personally or did others who worked under him sign too, like a logo?

 

MEI – Signature chiseled on a blade

DAI-MEI – student smith signing his teacher's name

GAKU-MEI – Signature from original tang inserted in shortened (o-suriage) tang

ORIKAESHI-MEI – Blade signature folded into opposite side when blade is shortened

GIMEI – A false signature on a blade. Usually a copy of a famous smith to increase the sword's value

 

Eric

[bibox]

 

MEI – Signature chiseled on a blade

DAI-MEI – student smith signing his teacher's name

GAKU-MEI – Signature from original tang inserted in shortened (o-suriage) tang

ORIKAESHI-MEI – Blade signature folded into opposite side when blade is shortened

GIMEI – A false signature on a blade. Usually a copy of a famous smith to increase the sword's value

 

Eric

 

Thank you.

 

Thomas B.

[bibox]

A tip on http://www.ksky.ne.jp is to use a small slip of printed paper resting on the blade to give the camera something to focus on. That site is also a goldmine of information for the beginner

 

I tried the paper tip and the pictures are better, still not great. Print definitely improved them though. I am up against the resolution limits of my camera I believe. The other links are amazing. One could spend years just learning the parameters, truly incredible. It seems to most resemble the shobu-zukuri type blade with an ihori cross section as depicted at the below link. Thanks to John A Stuart pointing that direction out -

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/terms/terms.htm

 

Thomas B.

 

 

 

 

This seems to be a flaw in the forging rather than a corrosion pit -

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bibox]

I received feedback on the sword from Davide Hofhine and he has allowed me to quote from his email. One of the questions I asked was if the signature was faked, would it make sense to remove it? Here are his comments -

 

"This is an authentic old Japanese sword. It is signed Mutsu no Kami Kaneyasu. It is probably the 3rd generation Kaneyasu, but would need more research to be sure. This would be made in Settsu province in the mid to late 1600's. Swords became very straight for a time during this period. You should not remove the signature, even if it were a fake signature. I can't tell if the point has been reshaped or not or how healthy the blade might be."

 

I believe the next move is to properly protect the blade via shira-saya and put it away in a safe place while it awaits its day with the polisher, determination of health, and ultimately, hopefully, papers.

 

Many thanks to everyone who commented on this sword. I would not have been put on the path I am now on without that.