Another one

[Jean]

Could you translate this for a newbie who has no clear idea of what he has, is it gimei or not?

[Eric H]

gimei

omote: Izumi no kami Kanesada (Aizu Kanesada)

ura:...? Suzuki Kaneshige ?

 

Edit: of course Shigehide...was in hurry

 

 

Eric

[Toryu2020]

Very interesting question Jean!

Looks to be Izumi (n/k) Kanesada on one side and I'm not sure the sig compares well - on the other is it Tenshi Kinsaku Suzuki Shigehide (wo) motte?

"Made as an Imperial gift - Suzuki Shigehide carried this"

or is it;

Tenshikin saku "made with (Imperial) Government grant money"?

 

Not sure I am even close, does the work look like Kanesada? Even a late-late Kanesada? How about the mounts? Any hints as to how this was "carried"?

-t

[Jean]

Thanks to both of you for your confirmation.

 

It seems to be a late late generation (Meiji), No koshirae, no oshigata to compare with. The blade is all rusted, nevertheless from the picture I have, it "could" polish well.

 

What is interesting is that, Thomas, I had both interpretation but don't kow which to choose.

 

Perhaps one of our Japanese member can highlight us?

[John A Stuart]

Not sure if this is right. 天腸金作之 Tenchokin saku kore. I thought it was some special metal.

鈴木重秀 Suzuki Shigehide. The Kanesada mei does not compare favourably at all. John

[Eric H]

most likely a fake, the first kanji above all is irritating. The nakagojiri of Kanesada 10th and 11th generation is different.

 

Eric

[Markus]

I think the meaning is as Thomas suggested:

"tenshikin o motte kore o saku - Suzuki Shigehide"

(以天賜金作之 鈴木重秀)

 

So I think that a certain Suzuki Shigehide had him made this sword by

a later generation Izumi no Kami Kanesada using the money he was granted

with as Imperial gratuity (shikin, 賜金). Maybe he was so proud of that bonus

that he ordered the smith to engrave this on the tang.

 

However, this does not rule out that the mei is gimei.

Maybe he said he is going to have him forged a sword by Kanesada but went

actually to a cheeper smith, ordered him to fake Kanesada´s name on the tang,

using the saved money for saké and/or wives.

[John A Stuart]

Interesting inscription. I missed the kanji 以 'motte', 'by means of'. I guess adding 天makes the 賜金 'grant money' 'imperial'? "Gut money'?? LOL Learned something with this one. The 12th and 13th generations used Izumi no Kami, without decree I believe, but to show a continuous lineage. They both have Fujiwara Ason commonly after Izumi no Kami. What is the one you show Eric? John

[Mark]

there is a papered sword by a late kanesada on Danny Massey's web site, he has some good pictures of the mei and the work,

 

http://www.nihontocraft.com/Aizu_Kanesada_nihonto.html

 

not sure if it will help but it is nice to have on line references

[Eric H]

  John A Stuart said:

What is the one you show Eric?

John,

mei on a moroha zukuri Tanto by Aizu Kanesada

 

Eric

[Jean]

Thanks Eric, you are are a real database

 

Which generation is this one?

[Eric H]

  Jean said:

Which generation is this one?

Sorry, I cannot give a conclusive answer...hopefully others can

The moroha Tanto is Edo era 1865

The nihontocraft Tanto is Ansei (1854-1860)

mei and nakagojiri are different

 

Eric

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

 

  Quote

Which generation is this one?

 

 

Ju-ichi dai 十一代　(eleventh generation) according the seller

 

http://www.seiyudo.com/ta-010111.htm

[Jean]

From Bob Benson, the mei is shoshin and it should be the 11th generation

[Eric H]

  Jean said:

From Bob Benson, the mei is shoshin and it should be the 11th generation

Hi Jean,

Bob Benson's opinion is most appreciated, nevertheless I'd point to the fact that one kanji is not in accordance with the mei of 11th Kanesada I have in my data base as well as to see in Fujishiro. One stroke is lacking or only rudimentary designed...(alike the "nihontocraft" Tanto)... intentionally?...in any case a questionable factor. Do other pictures exist to attest the NMB mei?

Well, everyone will make up his mind.

 

Eric