BenVK Posted December 14, 2010 Report Posted December 14, 2010 I'm considering buying this one which was brought back from Burma and is being sold by the son of the veteran. Any information about it would greatly appreciated by the both of us. According to the seller, the blade is completely unmarked. The Tsuba is marked "5" and "2" and also the Habaki I think but I'm not sure. I was just told that all the parts that make up the "hand guard" are marked with these numbers. I'm not worried about the condition, in fact, that's part of the appeal for me. I've been looking for a true combat veteran piece with character. My first sword, although beautiful, in great condition and recommended to me just didn't float my boat so was sold on pretty quickly. The Burma connection is of great significance to me, my late Great Uncle and good friend served out there so I got to hear first hand of what it was like. Cheers Ben Quote
BenVK Posted December 14, 2010 Author Report Posted December 14, 2010 Some more images. I've study a little bit but still find it completely impossible to tell from photos whether I'm looking at a machine made blade or traditional. I see a strong Hamon here despite the dull polish and I was under the assumption that a 1940's machine made blade would be stamped with at least an arsenal or date stamp etc. Am I wrong in my assumption? Any guidance on these points would be appreciated. Quote
estcrh Posted December 14, 2010 Report Posted December 14, 2010 As far as tang stamps go Kevin at ryujinswords.com has great explanation on his site. http://ryujinswords.com/shostamp.htm Quote
BenVK Posted December 14, 2010 Author Report Posted December 14, 2010 That's a very interesting essay. Thanks for the link. Quote
Muki Posted December 15, 2010 Report Posted December 15, 2010 Is there a matching hole to the one on the sheath? Looks like a bullet hole to me...? Quote
BenVK Posted December 17, 2010 Author Report Posted December 17, 2010 Looks like a bullet hole to me. No other thoughts Gentlemen? Quote
Mark Green Posted December 17, 2010 Report Posted December 17, 2010 Hi Ben, It is hard to say from the pics. Likely why people haven't chimed in much. Can you take some better pics of the Nakago, both sides? And a very close shot of the blade, at an angle. If is shows no markings at all on the nakago, there is no telling, without very close examination. And then you still may not be able to say, with the current state of polish. It is 'real', that's for sure. It looks like the bullet made a dent. I would look for a nasty bend at that point. It looks to be an OK relic of ww2 at least. For some, the bullet hole adds some 'splash'. For me it just says problems. Better pics may help? Sorry I couldn't help more. Mark G Quote
BenVK Posted March 17, 2011 Author Report Posted March 17, 2011 Hi guys, I recently bought this sword and took some photos of it this morning. Can anything more be determined about the blade? I can find no markings at all. Cheers Ben Quote
george trotter Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 Hi Ben, The recent pics are a help, but still difficult to tell. The tang looks nicely shaped and finished as on a "better quality" gunto, but the blade hamon looks like oil tempered, as on the more "ordinary" blade. but hard to be certain. It certainly looks like a WWII period blade to me. As you are interested in the WWII combat aspect of the blade, I would say you have a good souvenir of the Burma battles (Imphal-Kohima maybe?...very fierce fighting!). Regards, George. Quote
BenVK Posted March 17, 2011 Author Report Posted March 17, 2011 Thank you George, here are some more pics. If there is anything in particular you'd like to see, please let me know. The sword does have a lot of character which is what I was looking for. Quote
kusunokimasahige Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 I like it a lot. Especially the bullet hole which shows it did not go through and broke the sword inside (if its the original sword which i think it is). Keith wrote me that there were gunto which were apparently traditionally made but machine polished. He also wrote that the pitting on the kissaki and the hamon could come from ill fitting saya. The pitting on your sword corresponds with the pitting on my gunto so that is probably the reason. I read the book on Yasukuni swords which form the top end of the Gunto for officers, but am unsure how many smiths were attached to the army which still made traditional blades, apart from the factory machine made ones. Also i think some traditionally made gunto did get an oil quenching. Maybe Chris Bowen can tell us some more, since he is an expert on Gunto. KM Quote
BenVK Posted March 17, 2011 Author Report Posted March 17, 2011 Yes, the bullet didn't have enough velocity to go right through. On the WAF awhile ago there was this shot up sword with the .45 round still stuck in Tsuba! Quote
chrisf Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 If you see contemporary footage of the Burma campaign it's easy to understand why so many swords have pitting at the kissaki,it must have been virtually impossible to keep a sword dry with the monsoon rain and humidity and once wet the wooden saya liners would have retained moisture indefinitely. If you can obtain it Louis Allen's history of the Burma campaign is an enthralling read and has a number of anecdotes of Japanese officers using their swords in combat situations including using them to cut communication cables and the wires of demolition charges to prevent bridges being blown. Enjoyed seeing this and also the .45" plugged tsuba,interesting stuff. Quote
Muki Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 Ben, do you know anything about that sword with the .45 stuck in the tsuba? I see "Okinawa" on the leather I believe... Quote
BenVK Posted March 18, 2011 Author Report Posted March 18, 2011 The story about the Okinawa sword can be found here. There were never any photos of the actual blade though. http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ ... p?t=447700 Quote
Lindus Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 Seems both swords were drawn at the time of impact,this from my collection is ok but would see yours with the .45 stuck in as a gem. Dont be tempted to remove, in fact do anything to the mounts. Note, the sword below has two pegs,believe this was seen where the officer was also a martial art man?. Roy http://www.collectorsloot.homestead.com/gt5.html Quote
george trotter Posted March 19, 2011 Report Posted March 19, 2011 Hi Ben, From your additional pics I have to say that the hamon is not typical of the common gunto hamon....although the pics don't show real detail, the outline is more like a gendaito hamon IMHO. I think it would be worth getting an "in hand" opinion from someone knowledgeable. If it is not too hard, a closeup of the blade showing hada (if any) and the the details of the hamon (nie/nioi?). I would also give the habaki a squirt in some suitable penetrating oil and gently, using a square edged hardwood drift or some such non scratching material, tap the habaki back off and clean both it and blade. Regards, George. Quote
BenVK Posted March 19, 2011 Author Report Posted March 19, 2011 Some more photos for you George. It's so difficult to get good macro shots though because of the reflection. Is there any tips and tricks for taking photos of these swords? I gave the blade a clean before taking these, the amount of black dirt left on the cloth was incredible! Quote
george trotter Posted March 19, 2011 Report Posted March 19, 2011 Hi Ben, Much better...most pics "seem" to show the oil tempered type of hamon, but one also "seems" to show nie?, at least nioi...still too hard to say without sword in hand...I do suggest you check around for some local "in hand" assistance...sorry. Regards, Geo. Quote
BenVK Posted March 19, 2011 Author Report Posted March 19, 2011 Thanks for your assistance George. I'm based in North London, N13 if anyone fancies a cup of tea and a look at the sword. :D Quote
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