Soten School aesthetics??

[chuck]

Ok, I've been reading about tsubas here on the forum, I've been buying expensive and rare books about tsubas (and reading them, of course), and I've been looking at hundreds of pictures of tsubas on the web. I think I finally understand sukashi tsubas. I didn't "get" the appeal of the abstraction at first, but I think I've get a better handle on it. I can now appreciate the elegance of designs that had me scratching my head a few months ago. (I still don't quite understand the obsession with flying geese, but that's another post perhaps.)

 

But I just can't understand the Soten school tsubas. To me, they seem to lack the elegance of design seen in other schools, even other elaborately carved kinko work. To me the pieces I've seen seem too busy, clunky, and over-worked. Nothing draws the eye, and there's just a muddle of forms.

 

Part of what drew me to tsubas in the first place were the simple designs based on natural forms, but the Soten school pieces that I've seen seem to be almost the opposite of that.

 

How does the Soten school fit in with the other tsuba schools? Why do the aesthetics of this school seem so different (even to the point of being in opposition?) from other schools? Was it a specific group that wore these, or a specific region where they became popular? Or was it a reaction against the simpler tsuba designs?

 

Still trying to learn stuff!!

 

peace.

[Ford Hallam]

Hi Chuck,

 

your question points directly to the fact that there is actually no single monolithic thing that is Japanese aesthetics. There are many versions of expression in this tradition and culture. That displayed in Soten work is but one of them.

 

I attempted to explore the broader topichere. You may find the discussion helpful in forming a more coherent understanding of the whole picture.

 

regards,

 

ford

 

p.s. one Japanese word for wild geese is kari, this is also a homonym for temporary/impermanent. In poetry and literature they are representative of autumn, the parting of friends but there may also the suggestion that they will return.

[docliss]

Dear Chuck

 

I believe that one of the problems we encounter when trying to appreciate tsuba of the Sōten school is the fact that they comprise such a mixed bag of work. For this reason I prefer to label them as ‘Hikone-bori work’, rather than to attribute them to a specific school.

 

Hikone-bori includes work by a wide selection of artists, ranging from the rarely encountered work by the two, mainline Sōten maters; through the 20 or more artists of the school, of whom Nomura Kanenori I and Kitagawa Munehide are the outstanding ones; the Hiragiya school in Kyōto; the Tetsugendō school, also based in Kyōto; down to the numerous poor copies made by the Aizu Shōami artists in the late Edo period, as shiiremono for sale at the docks of Yokohama.

 

The majority of the Hikone-bori work that we see is examples of the latter, and we should not allow these to cloud our judgement of the scarcely seen, better work of this group.

 

John L.

[chuck]

  docliss said:

Dear Chuck

 

I believe that one of the problems we encounter when trying to appreciate tsuba of the Sōten school is the fact that they comprise such a mixed bag of work. For this reason I prefer to label them as ‘Hikone-bori work’, rather than to attribute them to a specific school.

 

Hikone-bori includes work by a wide selection of artists, ranging from the rarely encountered work by the two, mainline Sōten maters; through the 20 or more artists of the school, of whom Nomura Kanenori I and Kitagawa Munehide are the outstanding ones; the Hiragiya school in Kyōto; the Tetsugendō school, also based in Kyōto; down to the numerous poor copies made by the Aizu Shōami artists in the late Edo period, as shiiremono for sale at the docks of Yokohama.

 

The majority of the Hikone-bori work that we see is examples of the latter, and we should not allow these to cloud our judgement of the scarcely seen, better work of this group.

 

John L.

 

 

I think you may be right here. The majority of Soten tsubas that I've seen seem to fall into the "Let's see how many Samurai we can crowd onto a tsuba" variety.

 

Do you have any photos of tsuba by the school's masters so that I can see the differance?

 

Thanks!

 

Pax.

[Jamie]

Here is a soten school tsuba that I like.

Image borrowed from ricecracker.

[Brian]

Take a look at this post, it should explain the difference quite well. There is some really fine Soten work out there, but a lot of mediocre stuff.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2155

 

Brian

[docliss]

The attached thread illustrates many good examples of Hikone-bori work. Attached is another example, possibly by a Tetsugendo artist. John L.

[Thierry BERNARD]

Take a look at this post

 

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2342&p=16219&hilit=soten#p16219

[Clive Sinclaire]

Gentlemen

I have seen some very good Soten work such as the SEVEN ? VIEWS OF OMI PROVINCE and own about 5 examples myself. I think it is important to remember that the vaste majority are Machi-bori and therefore designed to have a wide appeal to ordinary people amd they should be viewed with this in mind (only one of mine is in shakudo nanako and it is not my favourite).

Regards

Clive (a bit out of my comfort zone) Sinclaire

[chuck]

  Jamie said:

Here is a soten school tsuba that I like.

Image borrowed from ricecracker.

 

That's actually quite beautiful, but I wouldn't have pegged it as Soten if you hadn't told me it was.

 

  Thierry BERNARD said:

Take a look at this post

 

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2342&p=16219&hilit=soten#p16219

 

This is what I'm talking about, and it's typical of most Soten pieces I've seen before now. Too many Samurai makes for a cluttered design. Inlay over everything - inlay should be for accents. If everything in covered in inlay, it all becomes indistinguishable. There's no feature that draws my eye, so it looks like a muddled mess.

 

From some of the pics on this thread - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2155 - I can see that when they tone it down, the effect is much better. The Sages in the bamboo grove tsuba is very good, imho. Also the one docliss posted. But they're also not as over-the-top as the battle scene tsubas.

 

  Clive Sinclaire said:

Gentlemen

I think it is important to remember that the vaste majority are Machi-bori and therefore designed to have a wide appeal to ordinary people

Clive (a bit out of my comfort zone) Sinclaire

 

Were these intended for a different "audience" than other tsuba? The aesthetic seems so different than other schools - by "intended to have a wide appeal to ordinary people" do you mean that these were mainly purchaced by merchants as opposed to Samurai? Were they intended for mass consumption as opposed to ownership by an elite? Because that would explain a lot about the difference in style.

 

When did the Soten school orginate? Can anyone give me a quick history?

 

Thanks!!

[John A Stuart]

Have a gander at this set on e-Bay. John

 

http://cgi.ebay.ca/UNIQUE-MOGARASHI-SOT ... 3cb2e88208

[Ozza]

Hi Chuck

 

One of the problems of looking at Hikonebori work is that when it was popular the craftsmen of Aizu created many rather less well crafted tsuba to get in on the market. You have to be certain that you are looking at genuine work from Goshu. The best work of Soheishi Nuydo Soten is of a high standard and uses that love of the assymetric seen so much in Eastern art. You might like to look up one of Soten II's pupils, Kaneishi Nomura Kanenori, who worked also in kinko metal. I've attached 2 tsuba one by Soten and another by Kanenori.

[dirk marshall]

2 Sage soten tsubas, second with odd hole for sword that still perpexes me as to its shape.

 

 

 

[raaay]

Dirk

 

no help with Soten debate, but your comments re odd hole for a sword, any time i have seen this, it was because the sword had a set Hi running through both sides of the tang !!

 

just my two pence worth

ray

[dirk marshall]

Thanks, learn something every day, that makes more sense than the yari theory i heard before.

Dirk