term

[John A Stuart]

Hi All, Is there really a difference between Kiniroe and Tokin? The thickness of the overlay? John

[Nobody]

Kin-iroe (金色絵) seems to be a generic name for several techniques. However, I do not know the exact meaning of each technique.

 

Loose translation;

The techniques to put gold include Kinkeshi-Tokin (金消鍍金), Utsutori (うつとり), Fukuro-kise (袋着), Kin-kise (金着), Kin-zogan (金象嵌), Kin-nunome-zogan (金布目象嵌), Fukumi-kin (哺金), and so on. They are collectively called Kin-iroe (金色絵).

 

Ref. NBTHK http://www.touken.or.jp/syurui/tosogu.html

金色を施す技法には、金消鍍金・うつとり・袋着（ふくろきせ）・金着（きんきせ）・金象嵌（きんぞうがん）・金布目象嵌・哺金（ふくみきん）などがあり、金色絵と称します。

[John A Stuart]

Hi Koichi-san, Thank you. I understand some differences in the way nunomezogan and zogan are applied but the others I'm not sure about. Especially the difference of applied sheet as compared to gilding. Thanks for the link I'll babelfish it but if anyone knows an English site of this info please let me know. John

[Pete Klein]

from 'Tosogu no Kigan' by Sasano;

[John A Stuart]

Thanks Pete, Is there a book that describes these processes in detail? John

[Pete Klein]

You would have to ask someone in the field, Ford perhaps, as now you are looking for manufacturing techniques. The only text I have seen is in Japanese and I'm not really certan if it even goes into this. You would have to speak to a Japanese book dealer on it. I do know that the old 'mercury evaporation' technique is extremely dangerous and unless you want to end up having tea with Alice you'd better stay away! LOL

[TAIOSON]

Hi John. As coincidence would have it I just posted pictures of a tsuba that exhibits a gold zogan of flowers and tendrils atop a crosshatch pattern in the iron. I have also wondered just how it was applied. Maybe the crosshatch has something to do with the method orcan even define which method. Just thinking off the cuff as it were. Cheers.

[myochin]

Hello John,

 

Here is what I found in Layton's notebook (Sôken Kodôgu Yôgo):

Tokin is the proper term to define electroplating (modern plating or gilding), also called mekki. Note that "modern" applies to the time of publication (after WW2).

As for Kiniroe, for me it seems more like a term to define a colour (gold). Iroe by (Layton's) deifnition is a method of achieving a coloured effect by bringing coloured metals into a design or pattern.

 

Paul.

[John A Stuart]

Hi Guys, Thanks for the replies. Pete, I do not want to try my hand at it; I don't have the gift or patience. "Twinkle, twinkle, little bat...". The caution against mercury is a good point. I use a bit in manometers but am wary of ventilation as it is the vapours that are the hazard, hence the whammy evapouration of it to overlay soft metals must cause. The tsuba with crosshatching is a good example of one method of nunome zogan. Thanks Richard. Paul, I guess a modern usage of 'tokin' would describe the electroplating techniques used now. I think the word predates that usage and I see it used commonly for gilded pieces particularly armour. I was hoping to find a reference that might describe the processes with more detail but not to the level needed to home workshop my own pieces. All those metalsmiths need have no worry about my crowding the marketplace. :lol: John