werner Posted November 7, 2010 Report Posted November 7, 2010 Hi, Got something to ask about: I read of a wellknown polisher that he stated that the owner of nihontos has the moral responsibility to ensure that these pieces of art are preserved for future generations....guess we all agree... Now what is your opinion on this one: Say somebody inherited a koto katana of his Grandad - knows about the value but doesn't have the cash for a genuine polish...yet knows that the blade will deterioate if nothing is done about it... Now he has 2 choices: a) let it be destroyed by rust b) carefully (without altering the shape) using fingerstones to get rid of the destructive rust and then store it oiled for the future when he has the financiell means to afford a professional polish....acceptable? Any thoughts on this one? Regards, Jock Quote
Brian Posted November 7, 2010 Report Posted November 7, 2010 No. Active rust will be halted with proper oiling and regular wiping/oiling. And that will preserve it for the future. No need to use anything abrasive. Oil and/or uchiko over a few months will make sure the rust doesn't continue any degradation of the metal. That is all that is necessary. Fingerstones are too fine to do much to thick rust anyways, so he would probably be tempted to use somethingmore abrasive, and we know where that leads. Ivory or bone chips would get rid of most surface rust. Looks to me like he is looking for an excuse to do what he plans to do anyways. Brian Quote
werner Posted November 7, 2010 Author Report Posted November 7, 2010 ....no real life event...just thought about such a szenario and wondered what would be the right thing to do..... Out of general interest: You mentioned bone & ivory chips??? Any more details about that? Never heard of it before... Jock Quote
shingen Posted November 7, 2010 Report Posted November 7, 2010 Yesterday I read the following: "A sword is thought to be the repository of it's history and of the spirits of past generations of owners. It's present owner is seen merely as the custodian of the blade, and he is obliged to maintain it for future generations to appreciate." So my personal (beginner) opinion on this subject would be either take proper care of it (let it be professionally repaired/polished) so it will be possible for future owners to enjoy it or sell it to someone who will take care of it and has the money to do so. I don't think it is a good idea to try doing something to the blade yourself, unless you really know what your doing and then still consider letting a professional polisher take care of it. So if there is no money or interest for it then selling it to someone who will take good care of it would be my opinion. Which would be answer c) then Quote
sanjuro Posted November 7, 2010 Report Posted November 7, 2010 Jock. You may find some value and some answers here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8454 The topic was raised a little while back and there were some handy and sensible suggestions made. Cheers Quote
Toryu2020 Posted November 7, 2010 Report Posted November 7, 2010 Jock et al - This may go without saying but I'll say it anyway. Polish does not equal preservation! Keep a blade clean and well oiled and it is preserved, nothing more needs to be done. Many fine blades have polishes that are 100 or more years old. There is a tendency to polish everything one finds. Great if you have the money but not always a necessity. It doesn't hurt to leave off the polish for some future generation if the blade can be appreciated as is. MHO... -t Quote
Lindus Posted November 8, 2010 Report Posted November 8, 2010 No.Active rust will be halted with proper oiling and regular wiping/oiling. And that will preserve it for the future. No need to use anything abrasive. Oil and/or uchiko over a few months will make sure the rust doesn't continue any degradation of the metal. That is all that is necessary. Fingerstones are too fine to do much to thick rust anyways, so he would probably be tempted to use somethingmore abrasive, and we know where that leads. Ivory or bone chips would get rid of most surface rust. Looks to me like he is looking for an excuse to do what he plans to do anyways. Brian Two other options are the use of a fibre glass propelling pencil to remove light rust without affecting and patination or polish,another is to wash the blade in Bicarbonate of soda which should neutralise the process, then if you want Uchiko and oil. Roy Quote
jason_mazzy Posted November 9, 2010 Report Posted November 9, 2010 This thread may be in refrence to his koto sword he had. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8548&p=70392#p70392 as you can see it has active rust and spiderwebing. perhaps someone here has an opinion on this sword that would help him Quote
werner Posted November 19, 2010 Author Report Posted November 19, 2010 Potatoes agains rust??? -- and just for peace sake: I haven't tried it..... Not saying one should follow the whole process....rather cruel to a piece of art....only wondered if a potato might help here and there? How would that work on a chemical basis...who knows? Jock Quote
sanjuro Posted November 19, 2010 Report Posted November 19, 2010 Bicarbonate of soda and potatoe are not quite the same. One is a soda and the other a carbohydrate. However, I dont see the value in either since bicarbonate of soda as far as I know does not neutralise rust, and I suspect neither would the humble potatoe. Can we get away from these back yard cure alls and urban myths please? I dont think in the twenty first century that we need to re-explore old wives tales and antiquated folklore. Quote
Jamie Posted November 19, 2010 Report Posted November 19, 2010 Just oil it With Mineral or Choji oil. Once oil has been left on it for a while-you'll be surprised that a bunch of the rust will naturally come off as you clean it. Fingerstones are not easy to use by the untrained. I know it sounds easy-and some directions are probably easy to find. But if not trained to use them-you will basiclly end up with lots and lots of scratches. Which will then have to be removed by a polisher. Even fingerstones remove metal. Quote
moss Posted November 20, 2010 Report Posted November 20, 2010 Jock, Potatoes definately will help.........But you must strictly follow this secret recipe. Just live on them and plain water for 3 months and the money you have saved will go well toward a polish. Probably have to eat the spuds raw as well to get to your goal LOL Moss Quote
werner Posted November 20, 2010 Author Report Posted November 20, 2010 Thanks Moss, Tried to convince my family of following your advise....didn't respond positively...maybe you could give 'em a call and argue the case...thanks for your help! Jock Quote
moss Posted November 20, 2010 Report Posted November 20, 2010 Gidday Jock, Watched the clip and couldn't resist..... At the start of the clip I saw the tube and thought OH NO .....but it was only a pipe getting the "magic treatment." My basic understanding is potato contains a mild phosphoric acid H3PO4 which I think would act more as rust converter rather than remover ,anyway I wouldn't put a blade anywhere near a potato. Just oil the poor old thing until you get a polisher to cast a critical eye over it. Just because it is old doesn't necessarily make it viable or deserving and there may well be defects not obviously apparent to yourself. Yes I know there are no options available in Aust. for this so you will have to go offshore . Cheers Moss Quote
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