help with Bizen Yokoyama Sukenaga

[Mark]

I have a wakizashi signed BiShu Osafune Yokoyama Sukenaga saku - Tomonari 58th generation. I have attached a couple of pictures. The work looks classic for ShinShinto Bizen Yokoyama school, before seeing the mei i would have said Sukekane. I am having some trouble trying to figure out who this maker is and where he fits. The "big" Sukenaga was 56th gen, the Meikan mentions a 59th generation. There are other makers from the group who use the 56th, 57th, 58th generation. I guess it could be gimei but i do not think so. Does anyone have any info on this 58th gen Sukenaga? any chance this was a mei used by someone who changed their name later? If i have made any mistakes with translation let me know. Thanks!

[cabowen]

Meikan only lists a first and second generation. This would have to be an unknown 3rd.....

[Mark]

when i tried to read the meikan it listed the 2 generations but i thought it said the second gen was 59th gen Tomonari..... if i read that right this must fit in between???

[Ted Tenold]

Mark,

 

The Osafune Choshi Token Hen has an example of a Sukenaga Daito. I quickly glanced the commentary and it notes that he called himself the 58th generation from Tomonari. I don't have the ability to resize the scans so I'll email them to you.

 

I had a sword signed the 57th generation that was also signed Sukenaga. There's a bit of vaguery in a couple of these generations and that was capitalized on by forgers. Finding hardfast examples can be a challenge and shinsa may be the only choice if the work looks righteous.

[Mark]

ed

 

thanks, that would be a help, i do not have that book.

 

Mark

[cabowen]

Check again, I am pretty sure it lists 56th and 57th.....

[Ted Tenold]

Whoops...My bad, I was in a bit of a hurry and misread the comment and it's 56th generation. No good deed goes unpunished. Anyways.. the Choshu Hen goes from Sukenaga (56th) to the next sword which is Sukekane, who signed 58th generation. I have a yari here that is signed 58th generation, Sukekane. The Toko Taikan shows the shodai Sukenaga (56th) and and the nidai Sukenaga (57th), both on page 337. There is also a Sukekane 58th on page 329.

 

As Chris pointed out, maybe there was an undocumented sandai Sukenaga that signed 58th generation as well?

[Eric H]

The inscription 58 dai mago on your Wakizashi is not in accordance with Sukenaga...1795-1851...Those who added Tomonari 58 dai mago to their signatures were Sukekane and Sukeyoshi.

 

The hamon though displays a seemingly kobushigata choji and starts with a yakidashi, the nioiguchi is crisp. These characteristics belong to the workmanship of Sukenaga but his hamon is more vivid.

 

The first pic is a Wakizashi 36.5 cm - Bizen Osafune Yokoyama Sukenaga - Tomonari 56 dai mago - Bunsei 10 (1827)

 

Hope you see the differences.

 

Eric

[rkg]

Hey guys,

 

Timely thread. The kid has a wakizashi by one of these two sukenagas - trouble is that I can't figure out whether it is the shodai or nidai

(comments?) Its signed differently (with the mon/ichi symbol (as described in the blerb above):" [Kikumon] Ichi Biyo Osafune Shi Yokoyama

Kaganosuke Fujiwara Ason Sukenaga February, Koka 3rd year" (1846) - wish I could read Japanese better so I could puzzle out the taikan

entry :-/

 

It has hozon papers, so I'd guess the mei is probably right for whichever one did it...

 

Here's a rubbing of the nakago:

 

 

and here's a pic of the blade:

 

 

Hopefully this doesn't just confuse things...

 

Best,

 

rkg

(Richard George)

[cabowen]

I believe both the shodai and nidai signed kaga no suke ason so you will need oshigata to differentiate...Beautiful blade....

[Eric H]

  rkg said:

The kid has a wakizashi by one of these two sukenagas - trouble is that I can't figure out whether it is the shodai or nidai

 

Pic 1 - HAWLEY

A - 1830-51 - 60 points - kiku ichi - Kaganosuke

B - 1830-65 - 10 points - kiku ichi - Kaganosuke - Ason

shodai and nidai?

 

Pic 2 - FUJISHIRO

no hint to a nidai Sukenaga

 

Pic 3 - Katana 68.1 cm

Yokoyama Kaganosuke Fujiwara Ason Sukenaga - Tenpo 15 (1844)

kiku ichi Biyo Osafune Go

 

Pic 4 - Katana 70.3 cm

Bizen Osafune Ju Yokoyama Daisaburo Fujiwara Sukenaga - Keio 3 (1867)

Kimi Banzai Tomonari 59 Dai Mago

 

Until now I haven‘t seen a kanteisho with designation to „nidai“ Sukenaga.

 

Eric

[NihontoEurope]

Howdy Mark

 

I saw the MEI and noticed that there are som simularities to a sword that I own. I am not sure which SUKENAGA mine is, but perhaps it could help you in the search of your smith.

 

Please check it out.

 

/Martin

[Mark]

thanks, i will probably take mine to the SF show and put it out for sale so if you are there stop at my table and check it out

[cisco-san]

Hello,

 

sorry to open this thread again but I found on the Web a balde which is confusing me.

It is signed - Bizen Osafune ju Yokoyama Sukehiro - (see attached picture).

But this blade is confusing me: It is signed with 59th gen. Tomonari. But as stated above in this thread, Sukenaga signed the 59th gen. Tomonari?!

I am not sure, but I think this Sukehiro is SUK690 (Stud. of Sukenaga). Tomonari?!

 

The other question I have is if I am right with my assumption that the 廣 is the long form of 広?!

 

Ay information would be very appreciated.

many thanks in advance

Klaus

[Bugyotsuji]

Mark, thank you for an interesting thread. I showed it to my sword teacher here who has been doing some research in this area.

 

Would it be possible to post some close-up shots of the yasuri-me? Thanks.