GOTO SENJO or not (shakespearian drama)

[Marc BROQUIN]

Hello all, :D

Please find herewith the mei of a fuchi, I had to determine for a friend of mine.

It seems to be from Goto Senjo, the certificate (tokubetsu kicho) also says that. Any idea to confirm or not ?

Thanks by advance.

Best

Marc

[John A Stuart]

Hi Marc, I have an unpapered kozuka by Senjo with kibata-mei 仙乗 two characters. I have never been able to verify it, but, it is well written. Just out of curiosity, who is shibui-swords? While checking for possible examples I found my whole website page of Goto pieces copied there, http://www.shibuiswords.com/goto-ryu.htm This must be a good thing, if my work is copied, is it not? Senjo was noted for a good quality. These f/k look to satisfy that, from what I can see, don't you think? I can not even check the kao, no reference do I have. John

[Curran]

John:

Always liked that Kaga Goto kozuka of yours. I tend to avoid dragon themes, but something about the perspective on that one has caught me.

 

Marc:

There are others here with much more Goto knowledge, but I do have many of the Goto books and a very good batting average (for a non native) on confirming signatures. If time allows tonight, I will try this one for exercise.

[John A Stuart]

Crazy, I forgot I had "Studies in Kyo-Goto" by Kasihara & Akimoto '88 and there are some examples of Senjo's work, pg. 195-197. There are minute differences in the mei, but, the kao is quite different with Senjo's looking very much like a plum. It has a triangular set of strokes in the interior not rectangular as the above specimen. Your's has a certificate, so who am I to counter it. Still though.......? John

PS, I still like it too, Curran

[Curran]

John:

I'm not actively collecting any more, but did always want a good Kaga or Kaga Goto piece. You and I talked about your before, and I haven't looked at it in a while. I'm glad to see it again and find my reaction is the same. I hope you enjoy that one for many years.

 

Marc:

I initially followed Mark's Kyo Goto book lead and must say the signature *does not* look good to me. My confidence interval on Goto is lower than others, - for a variety of reasons. But there are too many strokes just the wrong way or not right given the comparison mei in the Kyo Goto book.

 

This morning I got out of storage some of the other Big Goto books and am going through them now to make sure there isn't something in the Waki-Goto that might be a fit. I've tried several times to get a working knowledge of the waki-goto uploaded into my memory, but it doesn't stick well.

Let me try to dust off and see if there is anything in the waki goto.

[Ozza]

Hi

You can compare the mei with the illustration of a Goto Denjo tsuba in the book "Japanese Sword Mounts in the Collection of the Field Museum". Information is on page 63 and there is an illustration plate XIII. The book is available on line.

 

Keith alias Ozza

[Brian]

Marc,

Instead of a close-up of the mei, I would love to compare a close up of the work itself. How is the nanako and workmanship?

I expect even if the papers are older and maybe not as reliable, it must be very good work to have gotten them in the first place.

 

Brian

[Marc BROQUIN]

Hello all, :D

 

Thank you first to all who made research and answered to my little request

 

I just come back from the DTI where we went with Jean and more than 20 of our friends from the french KOKUSAI TOKEN KAI.

 

We missed you a lot.

 

I begin to emerge from my jet lag and take back the discussion about this FK.

 

For John, you will find Shibui Swords in the Japanese Sword Index.

His name is Elliot Long and he his member of JSS/US and NCJSC.

His address is PObox 2103, Gresham Oregon 97030.

 

Related to the main discussion,

 

First of all, when you look at the various books, you find out that GOTO SENJO had a lot of variations in signature and kao.

 

Despite the green paper attesting this FK to GOTO SENJO, I share also the thought that it can be a forgery. The pictures are certainly not good enough to look correctly at the work presented here.

 

Some of his signatures and kao look like this one but some variations lead me to doubt this to be SHOSHIN

 

So thanks again for your help and sharing ideas.

 

Kind regards

Marc

 

PS : I will try to get some more pics of the work itself from my friend.

[Marc BROQUIN]

Hello all, :D

I post herewith some new pics of this FK.

It is more and more obvious the signature is not good.

 

The nanako is not a Goto nanako at first and furthermore the takazogan is not so good to be Goto.

 

I let you judge of that matter.

 

Anyway best regards.

 

Marc

[Mark Green]

Still looks very nice! Wonderful contrast in alloys.

It always cracks me up when I see these 'hanging out the laundry' themes.

Anyone know what is behind that? It is not uncommon.

 

You see it some on tsuba, but I can't say I have ever seen it in menuki. There must be though.

 

Mark G

[Jean]

Is it possible to have a close up of a signed Goto nanako?

[k morita]

'hanging out the laundry' themes.

 

Hi,

It is not laundry. :lol:

 

The FK themes is "tagasode-zu".

tagasode means " Whose Sleeves?", " Whose Kimono are they ? ".

Please google tagasode.

 

http://www.google.co.jp/search?as_q=tag ... afe=images

[Eric H]

Is it possible to have a close up of a signed Goto nanako?

Goto Mitsuyoshi

 

Eric

[Jean]

Thanks Eric

[Mark Green]

Thanks Morita san, I was thinking that was the case, but wasn't sure.

Thanks, Mark G

[Rich T]

Is it me, or does the mei look like it follows the arc of the Fuchi wall ?????? Goto artisans would sign neatly in a straight line I think. This looks like it has been added later.

 

Just an observation.

 

Rich