Great Blades by Unknown Smiths....

[cabowen]

It is often said that every dog has his day. Have you ever seen a truly wonderful blade by an unknown or unheralded smith? Maybe even own such a blade? I would be interested in hearing about it....

 

One of my favorites is a blade I bought on ebay several years ago. The mei is done in sosho script and it was covered with a light oxidation, both of which might account for the lack of interest shown by bidders and my good fortune in buying it very cheaply. I had it polished and knew I lucked out when the togi called me to tell me how good the blade was. He had never shown much excitement over a gendai-to before....

 

The blade was made at the very end of the war by Yoshihara Kuninobu, the brother of the well known Kuniie and uncle to Yoshindo and Shoji. Done as a Kiyomaro utsushi complete with streaming sunagashi and a highly active ji-ba, it is one of my favorites. In fact, I have yet to see a blade by his well known brother, Kuniie, that I like as much.

 

I have found that there are many smiths who are considered pedestrian that have made excellent swords. These hidden gems are a good reason to learn what quality is all about as they can often be had at a steep discount in comparison to those with a well known name...

 

Please tell us about your hidden gem!

[Curran]

I have not owned such a sword, though remember some impressive tantos over the years that were made by relatively insignificant or Unknown smiths.

 

In my experience it happens more often in fittings.

I have a tsuba that I think is by a samurai turned arrowhead maker signing "Kuniyasu".

It is done as a Go stone, and about as simple elegant and as well finished as some of the early generation Higo tsuba.

 

The tsuba isn't worth much on the basis of name, but I ran it past Hagihara-san many years ago. It was his favorite of my collection at the time, with his second favorite being a signed ko-katchushi/katchushi with a signature that doesn't logically match anything in Wakayama, Meikan, or the Haynes Index.

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hi Chris,

 

One of the most memorable late period nihonto viewed at a group study session over these past years was one made by a mostly unknown swordsmith named Kunihide (KUN 120). Little known probably because he was a late period Shinshinto swordsmith that had not yet produced enough swords himself to become independently well known and recorded before the samurai days had drawn to an end. Kunihide was a student of Nakayama Ikkansai Yoshiro (according to Mr. Tanobe), and this particular sword was an excellent copy of a Koto Etchu Norishige, and impressive example of Kiyomaru school work; signed Soshu Kamakura ju Kunihide saku. Description (from notes): 73 cm, shinogi zukuri, high shinogi, tori zori, chu kissaki, iori mune; very tight ko itame; gonome midare with ashi, including saka ashi, sunagashi, nie; midare komi boshi; ubu one whole nakago 22 cm, kurijiri, sujikai.

[Mark]

Chris

 

Interesting thread. I have always prefered well made blades by minor, or unknown, smiths to so-so blades by big names. You may remember the 32" tachi i displayed at your last show, it is by Yukikuni, dated 1859 made when he was 70 years old. there is a reference that he was a student of Masahide but not much else. He must have been making swords for the Chikuzen Nobukuni group then made this masterpeice that he signed himself. When i submitted it the the NTHK a long time ago (maybe long Island NY), it was given 78 points by the SR Mr Yoshikawa, then a month or so later i was suprised to see it written up in the NTHK Journal (#625), and Mr. Yoshikawa commented on the quality. It was sent to Japan and received YuShu Saku. One of my favorite swords.

[cabowen]

Hi Chris,

 

One of the most memorable late period nihonto viewed at a group study session over these past years was one made by a mostly unknown swordsmith named Kunihide (KUN 120). Little known probably because he was a late period Shinshinto swordsmith that had not yet produced enough swords himself to become independently well known and recorded before the samurai days had drawn to an end. Kunihide was a student of Nakayama Ikkansai Yoshiro (according to Mr. Tanobe), and this particular sword was an excellent copy of a Koto Etchu Norishige, and impressive example of Kiyomaru school work; signed Soshu Kamakura ju Kunihide saku. Description (from notes): 73 cm, shinogi zukuri, high shinogi, tori zori, chu kissaki, iori mune; very tight ko itame; gonome midare with ashi, including saka ashi, sunagashi, nie; midare komi boshi; ubu one whole nakago 22 cm, kurijiri, sujikai.

 

 

I have seen a few of Kunihide's blades and agree he was a talented smith....Yoshihiro worked very near to where I lived in Shizuoka Prefecture so I am familiar with his work as well...Many talented smiths were put out of work in the Meiji period and remain relatively unknown....

[cabowen]

Chris

 

Interesting thread. I have always prefered well made blades by minor, or unknown, smiths to so-so blades by big names. You may remember the 32" tachi i displayed at your last show, it is by Yukikuni, dated 1859 made when he was 70 years old.

 

Yes, I do remember that blade-hard to forget!

 

By the way, we are kicking around ideas for exhibits for next year's Minneapolis show and shinshinto is near the top of the list....maybe we can talk you into a repeat with that one!

[george trotter]

What an intersting thread. I can't say that I actively search for obscure or unknown smith, it just seems to happen that the three or four favourite swords I just "had" to have are in that area.

Some of these finds are indeed quirky and don't follow the "rules"...for example, I had a blade by gendai RJT "Chikugo Muto Hidehiro". He is of the Hizen Tadayoshi Tradition and all the pics of his work I have seen reflect the serene strength of the chu suguba. Mine however, while based on chu suguba, was almost a nokogiri. Excellent sword, wish I had kept it!

 

Without listing all the examples can I say that I often find a sword which is (to my taste) totally fascinating, yet when I get it and do the research, I find that it is apparently unique, and atypical of the smith's published work...frustrating, but interesting...in this case, I do not feel a nervousness or the urge to hurriedly dispose of the "untypical" sword, I just wish he had done more like it (I know I'm twisted :lol: ). One example of this is the oshigata of a hamon by gendai tosho Komiya Shiro Kunimitsu on page 230 of the WWII publication "Dai Nihon Token Shoko Meikan" by Nihon Token Shimbun sha. I have never seen another of his swords which looks like it...wish I had it! (my Okishiba Yoshisada blade (Osaka) is virtually identical, so it fills the need beautifully).

Finally, I have a very nicely made blade by an unknown gendai tosho "Shigekuni"...why is someone so good so unknown!!!???

 

I suppose in closing, the answer is yes, there are great blades by unknown smiths...whether modern or older eras. It may be that I have some because my collecting ethos is faulty?, I just seem to be attracted to the workmanship in the first instance and it is the most important thing for me...I acquire it because I like it. The name is important, but secondary...a nice bonus if they are an appreciated smith. I have bought swords just on the blade quality and then rushed home to look at the nakago. In my case (all gendaito), while mine are consistantly good work (IMO) and the tosho were "known' or quickly identifyable...I am mystified why some are unrecorded. How can a smith get to a good/upper standard without being noted in some way?

Regards,

George.

[David Flynn]

I have a Gendaito, signed, Kanetsune, living in west village, Mino. This is an excellent sword made tradional Mino style, probably a copy of a Kanetsune. It has fabulous O mokume hada and a terrific crumbling Hamon :D

[Tom Clancy]

I own a custom made sword by Shinoki Masamichi (Bingo Province). I think it is an exceptional blade, my problem is I cannot find another one to make a comparison.

Like Chris says every dog has its day (Was this Shinoki Masamichi's day when he forged this blade)?

I would also like to ask members if anyone owns or knows of someone who owns a sword by this smith.

Regards

Tom.

[cabowen]

I am mystified why some are unrecorded. How can a smith get to a good/upper standard without being noted in some way?

Regards,

George.

 

I had an interesting conversation with a smith in Tokyo about this very subject. I asked him why he and his family (with 7 smiths since the Taisho period) were basically unknown despite the fact that every blade I have seen (a dozen or more) made by a member of his family had been first rate and easily on par with those of the well known smiths. His answer was simple: "we are craftsman, not business people". Some smiths are excellent at their craft and at self-promotion and marketing. I am sure we can all think of a few that fit that description.

 

Without a knack for self-promotion, a famous/wealthy benefactor, or a connection to an institution, it is difficult for a smith, or any artist for that matter, to gain recognition...I do think though that with time, talent is usually recognized....

 

I should add that I have several blades by relatively unknown smiths that are easily the equal to those made by the "big names". Personally, I very much enjoy "discovering" talent.

[george trotter]

I can certainly second that coment about self-promotion. When in conversation with Albert Yamanaka (over tea at the Imperial Hotel...those were the days), he told me the same thing. We were discussing oshigata and one came up from a sword by a famous Taisho-Showa tosho...in fact considered one of the "fathers" of the modern movement....while not disparaging his skill, Yamanaka san 's comment was ..."oh, the showman, well connected...".

I too appreciate good work, famous or not.

Regards George.

[Jean]

I had an interesting conversation with a smith in Tokyo about this very subject. I asked him why he and his family (with 7 smiths since the Taisho period) were basically unknown despite the fact that every blade I have seen (a dozen or more) made by a member of his family had been first rate and easily on par with those of the well known smiths. His answer was simple: "we are craftsman, not business people"

 

 

Question : Has this situation an influence on blade prices?

[leo]

An interesting book in Japanese language on this topic is "Waga Kyodo To". It is dedicated to the work of country smiths(wakimono), who cannot easily be grouped within the gokaden traditions and covers most periods and provinces.

The author is Kazuo Iida and it shows plenty of oshigata of lesser known smiths. I think it is out of print, but I am not sure. I have seen it offered for reasonable prices though.

[Tom Clancy]

I should add that I have several blades by relatively unknown smiths that are easily the equal to those made by the "big names". Personally, I very much enjoy "discovering" talent

 

Chris

Are any of these blades papered?

[cabowen]

No, they are for the most part all gendai-to. I have only papered one and that was to prove that star stamped blades are "paperable" by the NBTHK. Papers are a waste of money as far as I am concerned when it comes to gendai-to.

[cabowen]

Question : Has this situation an influence on blade prices?

 

Absolutely.....

[cabowen]

An interesting book in Japanese language on this topic is "Waga Kyodo To". It is dedicated to the work of country smiths(wakimono), who cannot easily be grouped within the gokaden traditions and covers most periods and provinces.

The author is Kazuo Iida and it shows plenty of oshigata of lesser known smiths. I think it is out of print, but I am not sure. I have seen it offered for reasonable prices though.

 

Yes, that is indeed an interesting book....Iida san did certainly see his share of swords in his day...

[george trotter]

May I comment on two comments above?

First, Jean..."has the situation an influence on blade prices?".....depends where one lives and how/what one buys. I have only purchased swords outside Japan so for me there is no real "reputation driven price difference" in local buying (actually 99% of sellers are just selling grandfather's war souvenir...just once, and they wouldn't know a good name or any name)....this applies to gendai and older blades equally. But in Japan, where "all is known" a "prominent" maker's work will bring more than an equally competent unknown...I have seen it. If the tosho is astute and connected, he can lift his swords into the "desireable purchase class" by word of mouth/self-promotion. This method does not work on buyers who are quietly confident in their own taste and judgement...they still buy what they like, even if outside "the conventional wisdom".

 

Secondly "Are any of these blades papered? The answer is yes...many have been later.

I refer to Chris' comment in reply...I agree with him...from the "unknown" (or little known/currently ignored) swords I have experience of, these are eminently capable of being papered hozon...but why bother? In my personal interest of WWII gendaito...the "Yasukuni" mei, Minatogawa "Kikusui" mon and especially within the wide variety of RJT tosho, the "Star" marks are the mark of quality to me...the research proves it, personal kantei confirms it, and Shinsa has established it...so papering each individual blade is unneccessary (IMHO).

Of course there is a place for buying "high repute" only, and for the "papered" system only, but as in all things nihonto, there is also room for the finding of that "great blade by an unknown smith" as well. Having said that, I must repeat that I won't just buy any one of the above blades just because of its "quality mark", it must still appeal, regardless of maker.

 

Regards,

George.

[David Flynn]

The Kanetsune I posted about earlier, recieved, NTHK kanteisho.

[W K Clifford]

Since you own these blades, for the benefits of us who dont have the savvy, is it possible to post some pictures. Better still, is it possible to post pictures side by side with not so great swords by famous smiths so that we may learn what you all mean by those uncanny descriptions? you see, for most arts, only comparative study makes sense....

[cabowen]

Since you own these blades, for the benefits of us who dont have the savvy, is it possible to post some pictures. Better still, is it possible to post pictures side by side with not so great swords by famous smiths so that we may learn what you all mean by those uncanny descriptions? you see, for most arts, only comparative study makes sense....

 

Not sure who you are addressing but in my case I will try to post some pictures of the blade I mentioned. I do not have any not so great swords by famous makers for comparison....

[george trotter]

Yimu, if you were asking me, I no longer have most of the blades that are so different (and I think better) to the "normal style" of those smiths...sorry.

The only one I have is unknown (Shigekuni) and I have never seen another example by him...I only mentioned him as his work is good but he is not recorded it seems...a mystery.

George.

[W K Clifford]

By "you" of course i mean all of you who have seen or owned such excellent blades by unknown smiths.

 

One thing particularly frustrating for us beginners is that there are not enough pictures in these standard reference books. You see, subjective description works only if you already know what it is supposed to be describing. Not all of us get the chance to go to the nihonto museum in Tokyo or even the shows in the US. Ultimately one's understanding relies on the standard samples one's seen in shows or, more conveniently, in books, over the years. So why do the standard reference books contain such a meager collection of pictures? It is like writing about a painting without even showing you what the painting looks like. Certainly it is not hard to include, say, one picture for each type of hada (or better, three pictures showing the varying qualities).

 

There must be an online database for these things, right? (not just for mei!)

[Jean]

You have all you need on the commercial pages, the best scan available, Danny has nearly all hataraki pictured, same on other sites :

 

http://www.ricecracker.com/ ====>go to articles

http://www.nihontoantiques.com/sword%20details.htm menu on the left - Moses

http://www.nihontocraft.com/japanese_sword_terms.html -

 

You want to see fine blades

 

http://www.iidakoendo.com/info/item/index.htm

http://www.seikeido.com/katana.html

http://tsuruginoya.com/mn1_3/mn3_1_1.html

 

Better pictures than anyone of us can provide, except Darcy

[Tom Clancy]

Yimu

I also do not have any not so great swords by famous makers. However I still own the sword I mentioned.

Not sure if you are going to get someone to post photo's of a poor quality blade by a famous maker.

Below is the Masamichi.

 

Tom.

[zentsuji2]

lovely sword , tom ,i am a beginner ,i have a little known star stamp by motomura kanemoto ,a lovely nagamitsu,and soon a kuniie ,the swords i wish i had are all inaccessible as i cant bid on ebay,its frustrating,i love your sword have you found any more about him?regards and hope to speak again.ian bellis

[chrstphr]

I own a Mino Senjuin mumei sword that is a beautiful work. It is papered Hozon which is enough for me. Ed at Yakiba.com had it on consignment for me for awhile last year. Ed said it was a beautiful sword and could possibly pass Tokubetsu hozon based on the sword itself and the activity.

 

 

It is no longer for sale, as my wife has made peace with the "weapon" being in the house, but here is a link to some photos. I am not educated enough to say its a great sword, but i think its workmanship is museum quality.

 

 

http://yakiba.com/Katana_Mino_Senjuin.htm

 

 

Chris