A tsuba for comment and kantei

[jason_mazzy]

I purchased this tsuba several months ago, and just got round to taking pictures. I was told it was muromachi period, and I enjoy it. I will most probably mount this along with my hotei menuki. It is a ray of light tsuba with wormholes or burrows. I am not very knowledgable in tsuba, so I was curious if it appeared to be muromachi period, what style and what school if possible. Thank you all for your collective wisdom.

 

 

enjoy!

[cabowen]

Looks a lot newer than Muromachi....Notice how crisp the hitsuana and other edges are....

[Mike]

The nakago ana does not have any tagane-ato or seki-gane which makes me wonder how this tsuba can be or was adjusted to sword. This is not a good sign.

Mike

[jason_mazzy]

The nakago ana does not have any tagane-ato or seki-gane which makes me wonder how this tsuba can be or was adjusted to sword. This is not a good sign.

Mike

 

 

It has never been mounted. It was also in much worse shape and has been repatinated and cleaned by Mark.

 

[Lee Bray]

A tsuba from the Muromachi period that has never been mounted?

What has it done for 500 years?

 

I'd agree it looks too crisp to be very old but that maybe because of the cleaning and new patina.

[christianmalterre]

How about the idea to post this Tsuba in the Bakamatsu Period?

There are similarities to Norisuke or Sadahiro-school.

 

Christian

[sanjuro]

I recall when this tsuba was up for auction that the design I found very attractive, to the point where I kept track of the auction until it was ended. What prevented me from bidding on this tsuba (or one so like it that the resemblance is astounding), was the claim by the seller that it was from the Muromachi period, and the absence of any of the usual earmarks of such an age and evidence of it having been mounted. My thought then as it is now, is that the tsuba is an Edo period piece. It is however still an attractive tsuba and the cleaning and repatination have improved its appearance somewhat.

Nice tsuba Jason but not Muromachi period IMHO. :D

[jason_mazzy]

Thank you gentlemen, that is why I posted it here. I do find it very attractive, and I was hoping you would also. What is the correct style and what schools were known for this? I will be mounting this with a nice wak with a jizzo point and these menuki:

 

 

I am still however looking for the right fuchi and kashira for this mounting. Though I am leaning towards buffalo horn, or solid black shakudo to keep it beautiful in a less is more way.

[jason_mazzy]

I am somewhat reminded of this tsuba, and this period.

 

http://www.owazamono.com/Tsuba-060.html#0

[Grey Doffin]

Or, how about this one, titled "Higo Diletant" by Skip Holbrook, and available dirt cheap on the For Sale forum.

Grey

[jason_mazzy]

very nice, but doesn't fit mu buddha/hotei theme.

[Lorenzo]

It was also in much worse shape and has been repatinated and cleaned by Mark.

 

Every time I hear of this restorations, I fear in a few years we will never seen the original colours any more.. Perhaps the pictures or my monitor is fooling me, but I fear all will turn out to be pale black. Who Mark is BTW?

[jason_mazzy]

Mark Green from here on the site. He was geacious enough to help me with a sadly detiorating tsuba. This is for the better I assure you as it is now protected by the patina.

 

and it is almost identical to the actual color of the good part of the patina originally.

[Marc BROQUIN]

Hello all,

 

I wanted to add my little stone to this interesting discussion.

 

I understand when you bought the tsuba it was in a worse condition.

 

In my opinion, it cannot be Muromachi or even Momoyama. All the tsuba from these periods bear the marks of mounting and re-mounting. No exception in my knowledge.

 

So as Lee suggested what was the travel of this tsuba to remain unmounted, as far as it is not by far a museum piece that some temple could have put aside as a treasure.

 

On the other hand, if we consider a 19th or 20th production, unmounted, it is strange you have found it rusty and dirty. I fear it has been prepared in such a way to look like a very old tsuba.

 

I would prefer to have it in hand to give my last advice, but in my opinion this tsuba doesn't sound what your seller claimed.

 

Friendly.

 

Marc

[christianmalterre]

Dear Marc,

 

i agree!

This Tsuba-as i did mention already-is not what it was bought/sold for-it is most probably Bakamatsu from point of time.

An attribution to an specific school is actually hard to tell(mine guess is still one of the later artists under Owari-school domain/influence).

The general condition is very "ill".

I have some very strong feeling this tsuba was "altered" due acid treatment.

 

Christian

[Ford Hallam]

I would have to agree with Marc's comments. I would also agree wholeheartedly with this observation;

 

I fear it has been prepared in such a way to look like a very old tsuba.

 

My view is that this is a cast steel copy. The apparent corrosion of the surface is most likely merely the result of the plaster mould (into which the steel was cast) having crumbled at the high temperatures needed to cast steel.

 

That the patina has been interfered with by an amateur is something of a moot point if it's a fake but I'd be concerned if this DIY approach became common though. I know there will be those who say that it's better than nothing when dealing with relatively unimportant pieces but that leaves the problem of inexperienced people making the judgement as to what is of importance. As the old saying warns; " a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing"

[jason_mazzy]

the corrosion was real. it was quite rusted, and I had to use antler and ivory to scrape it dow, in my over zealous cleaning I took off a good chunk of the patina when trying to make sure all the red rust was gone. This is a real tsuba, Mark willl atest to this also. the rusting was deep in some places, and not as bad in others. it was also pure iron and not steel.

[Ford Hallam]

see my previous post

it was also pure iron and not steel.

 

...and how exactly were you able to deduce that this is pure iron and not steel? You subjected it to some analysis perhaps? or do you have one of those handy Star Trek gadgets that you point at things, go beedly beep and provide a full analysis.

 

If rust is proof of authenticity I may be in business....

 

Anyway, enough from me.

[jason_mazzy]

I have been working with metal since I was 12. welding, braising soldering and working on cars and engines. So in my opinion it was iron. secondly I was refering mostly to the casting method you described, and was stating that it was rust that was cleaned away that made the rust marks not casting. lets say you are right and it is steel. even then it was still rust that made the indentations you were reffering to. I was only stating the history of the tsuba since I have had it, not arguing with you or saying you don't know anything if that is how you took it. I respect your opinions and frequent your website to see the pieces you make. Perhaps you would like to see the piece in person?

[Mark Green]

I agree with Jason that this tsuba is likely 'real'. Surly not as old as thought by the seller.

Being in very ill shape, and badly rusting Jason was a bit over zelous cleaning it. Down to the bare metal in many areas if I recall.

So yes, I did re-patina it with a period patina method. The cleaned metal re-patined very well.

I felt it would be better then leaving it at the bare metal stage. I do have a bit of metal patina experince.

It may have been 'treated' to look much older then it was, but my guess was that it just had sat somewhere very damp for many years. But who knows?

I think it came from a seller in Japan, is that right Jason? And to me, it was hard to tell if it had ever been mounted. It didn't look like it.

I wouldn't normally work on an old tsuba, but Jason wanted to mount it soon. So, I helped him out in preserving what was left of his tsuba.

Mark G

[Ford Hallam]

ok...on second thoughts it might not be a cast copy. What I thought might be a casting seam inside the nakago ana and the ryo-hitsu is seemingly also evident in the rim in the last pic. It may be evidence of a laminate fold....hard to tell.

[jason_mazzy]

Yes Mark the tsuba was bought from Japan. And I concur that it was neglected. I unfortunately took this down to the bare metal in order to preserve what was left, and knew that patinating it was the only way to prevent further damage. I was actually quite worried because the original sharpness that was in the least damaged parts I was afraid would be lost. Luckily Mark was kind enough to save this piece so I could mount it. I enjoy history and sometimes it's too hard to watch a piece slowly die, and I instead buy it and do my best to stop the damage. I would be happy to send you the piece to look at Ford. I can also send you the original photos. they are high def, so you can zoom in very close.