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this is quite a challenge, for me anyway...

W K Clifford

By W K Clifford
in Translation Assistance

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george trotter Grand Master

george trotter

Posted
Posted

An interesting inscription...maybe the maker's name has been cut off, but if I read this correctly, the untranslated portion says

IKOMA SANUKI (no) KAMI SHOJI (suru)...(Made) to be carried by Ikoma, Lord of Sanuki Province.

It would indeed be interesting to see the blade and fittings if this is possible?

Regards,

George.

k morita Grand Master

k morita

Posted
Posted

Thank you for sharing the photographs.

Nickname's such as Murasame sword is doubted among the swords collectors in Japan.

(Nickname named " Murasame" is too famous in Japan.)

You should open the window of the sword by about two inches of the blade by a professional polisher.

W K Clifford Collaborator

W K Clifford

Posted
  • Author
Posted

interesting. doubted in what way? since, for instance, in the case of this sword, it was obviously not made by Muramasa, what's the purpose of such a fictional inscription. i mean, the mei is supposed to use to fool someone, right? but in what way?

outlier48 Collaborator

outlier48

Posted
Posted

Yimu,

 

Before you have a professional polisher "open a window" on this sword, can you please try to enhance the kanji in the last photo by using talcum powder to "highlight" the kanji. I cannot see these characters clearly but they seem to be related to date and smith/province.

 

FWIW, I hope you will take Morita-san's advice.

 

Looking forward to a better photo.

 

Charlie Brashear

W K Clifford Collaborator

W K Clifford

Posted
  • Author
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many thanks for all your responses, especially for those of Morita san's

 

a brief research shows that this blade is more on the fishy side. the reason is as follows. there are only two 讚岐守 with the last name 生駒, and both of them were in the early Edo period. however this inscribed fictional name only appeared shortly before the Meiji reform. So the inscription was retroactive? that would be eve more unusual.

 

make sense?

Nobody Grand Master

Nobody

Posted
Posted

I also think that the inscription is doubtful. However; it is difficult to conclude so at the moment logically because of the following reasons.

 

1. The last Ikoma Sanuki no kami (生駒讃岐守) was Ikoma Chikayuki (生駒親敬), who got the title in 1868. (Ref. http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%94%9F% ... A%E6%95%AC )

 

2. The inscription might say that the sword WAS possessed by Ikoma Sanuki no kami (of eary Edo period) to record its history.

 

3. Murasame-maru (村雨丸) is a fictitious sword appears in a novel of late Edo period (Nanso Satomi Hakkenden; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nans%C5%8D ... _Hakkenden ) as Morita-san already said. But it has nothing to do with Muramasa even in the story, AFAIK.

 

 

The inscriptions on the other side are date and Setsudan-mei.

BTW, I found that one sword made by Sukehiro has a nickname “Murasame (村雨)”. The sword is Tokubetsu Juyo.

W K Clifford Collaborator

W K Clifford

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The Yamano cutting test result basically says two bodies were cut on 寬文五年十二月二十五日 (Xmas!) and the tester was 永繼.

 

Isn't it a bit odd that these were carved on the nakago instead of written on it (in golden ink)?

george trotter Grand Master

george trotter

Posted
Posted

I obviously misunderstood you Yimu,

When you posted a nakago pic under the heading "this is quite a challenge, for me anyway..." it seemed natural to me that you were asking for help reading the inscription meaning. I can see now you already knew the meaning except for the hiragana portion... and you also knew the bodies, name and date on the other side. Silly me, sorry for wasting your time.

Regards,

George.

reinhard Proficient

reinhard

Posted
Posted

Yimu, let's waste some more time. The mei on your sword looks like a pretty poor promo-stunt, but I won't tell you why. You have to find out by yourself since you seem to know enough about Japanese swords already. As you probably know, the Ikoma in Sanuki possessed some very fine and famous swords and quite a few were marked with "Ikoma Sanuki-no-Kami". Here's a pic of a kinzogan-mei on a real sword from the Ikoma-collection (presently in the possession of the Kurogawa institute). Can you see the difference?

 

reinhard

post-1086-14196788637783_thumb.jpg

reinhard Proficient

reinhard

Posted
Posted

I forgot to mention: What does it mean when the extension of the shinogi into the nakago looks like this? See the area around "Murasame". It's a textbook-example of .....?

 

reinhard

post-1086-14196788658099_thumb.jpg

W K Clifford Collaborator

W K Clifford

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thank you for the wonderful remarks, Reinhard. Where did you get the picture? I have been wondering where those resourceful members of this forum get their references from. Googling does not seem to be the trick...

 

my knowledge on nihonto is rather poor. So that nakago is a textbook example of what, if you do not mind my asking?

k morita Grand Master

k morita

Posted
Posted

yimu,

The carving (Ikoma Sanuki no Kami shoji)of your sword is very similar to gold inlaying on national treasure sword Ikoma Mitsutada.

However, this gold inlay was inlaid by Honami. ;)

So,i believe that the carving (Ikoma Sanuki no Kami shoji) is a copy.

post-191-14196788661566_thumb.gif

Grey Doffin Grand Master

Grey Doffin

Posted
Posted

I believe what Reinhard is referring to is the curve of the shinogi away from the ha between the 2 mekugi-ana. This isn't right and probably happened sometime after the original shortening. Perhaps a different mei was filed away?

Grey

Mark Veteran

Mark

Posted
Posted

Yes, i looked it over in hand. it is 27" quite wide, intersting activity in boshi and monouchi. The rust is an issue, hard to say how it will turn out, but the blade is quite wide and the temper is wide so maybe it can take a polish. The cutting test seems reasonably well cut, the grass script on the other side does not look that good (as was noted in this thread), but it can always be removed. Overall i was happy to get it, especially at that price, a few other people who examined it but did not attend the auction were suprised it went so cheap, one advanced collector said he did not attend as he expected it would go over 2k at auction and he was onlt willing to go $1000-1200.

This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one, unless your post is really relevant and adds to the topic..

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